This week, Farai speaks to Texas Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee who shares a firsthand take on the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings at Capitol Hill for SCOTUS nominee Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. In ‘Our Body Politic Presents…’ we hear from actor and author Gabrielle Union who spoke to the podcast, “Well-Read Black Girl” about writing her truth. And in Sippin’ the Political Tea, Farai talks with pop culture gurus Casey Mendoza of Newsy and Candice Frederick of the Huffington Post about all things Oscars.
Farai Chideya:
Hi, folks. We are so glad you're listening to Our Body Politic. If you have time, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcast. It helps other listeners find us, and we read them for your feedback. We're here for you, with you, and because of you. Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
This is Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. This is a moment when history is forged. During Senate confirmation hearings, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, the first black woman nominated to the Supreme Court has faced both intense criticism ...
Speaker 2:
All I can say is that your view of how to deter child pornography is not my view. I think you're doing it wrong.
Farai Chideya:
... and effusive praise.
Speaker 3:
You have earned this spot. You are worthy. You are a great American.
Farai Chideya:
And of course, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson has spoken for herself.
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
One of the reasons why having a diverse judicial branch is important is because it lends and bolsters public confidence in our system.
Farai Chideya:
We spoke with Representative Sheila Jackson Lee as she stepped out of the hearings during a break. You're going to hear the background noise from the throngs gathered in the Senate.
Farai Chideya:
Congresswoman Jackson Lee has represented Texas's 18th congressional district since 1995. We spent time connecting the threads of history. There are present debates, including the Supreme Court confirmation hearing, and then there's how the past affects the present. The Congresswoman has been working for years to get H.R. 40 passed. It would gather background data to evaluate the prospect of reparations for slavery.
Farai Chideya:
Representative Jackson Lee, thank you so much for joining us.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Thank you for having me today.
Farai Chideya:
So you are at the confirmation hearings for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. What is the energy there? I mean, it's been contentious.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Well, first of all, not only am I at the hearing, I am literally outside of the hearing room. That's even more historic to be talking to you from almost feet away from really the most qualified candidate that many have said, other than me, that is set in the chair in a totality of 115 Supreme Court justices who've been confirmed.
Farai Chideya:
Representative Jackson Lee painted a picture of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson's unique qualifications.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Part of it is the wholeness of Judge Brown Jackson's experience. She's been a public defender, she's been a trial court on the federal level, which means she knows plaintiffs and defendants and she knows and renders decisions that warrant or refund to someone's innocent or guilt, or is involved in sentencing, uses her judgment, takes the facts then, and then the ultimate court of appeals and now to the Supreme Court. But wait a minute, right in between, she has been on the Sentencing Commission and rose to be vice chairman of that, and so she's had three confirmations where Republicans have voted for her.
Farai Chideya:
And the Congresswoman also turned her gaze on the heated nature of the confirmation hearing.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
The tension in the room is self-made. It is self-made by Republicans who are now retreading, restating, going around and around on the question of what happened yesteryear. But here's the excitement as a lawyer, 27 years on the health judiciary committee, the chair of the subcommittee on crime, I am exhilarated and I feel exhilaration with the discourse of legal theory and issues that she has such a command though.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
And when the senators, whether they're Republican senators or Democratic senators ask her these questions, she is able to respond and also has a judicial temperament to say, “Well, Senator, I cannot comment on that because it may appear before the Supreme Court. And if I am confirmed, then I cannot comment because these are matters of politics, these are matters of policy, and the Court does not make those decisions.” And so the tension has been self-created, man-made if you will, but she has used the judicial temperament and demeanor to calm the waters, not get elevated. And that means that the person that is in temperate, overly excited loses the battle, does not win and she is a victor. I think that's an important point to make.
Farai Chideya:
It strikes me that so much of this moment is about history being relitigated. And I just want to play something, which I'm sure that you heard already, the judge being questioned by Senator Chris Coons on the second day of the hearings.
Senator Chris Coons:
Have you ever cited the 1619 Project?
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
No, Senator.
Senator Chris Coons:
In your nine years in the bench and more than 570 opinions, have you ever cited the journalist or principal author of that 1619 Project, Ms. Hannah-Jones?
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
I have not.
Senator Chris Coons:
And in your nine years in the bench and more than 570 decisions, have you ever used, employed, relied upon critical race theory to determine the outcome of any case or to impose any sentence or as a framework for your decision making?
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
No, Senator.
Farai Chideya:
And of course, Senator Coons was asking these questions after Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, implied that the Judge was using critical race theory in her work, and also asked about the 1619 Project. As someone who is a scholar of history and who makes history yourself in your own role, what do you think is going on here in terms of this being, framing that the confirmation process is grinding through?
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Isn't it a conspicuous commentary, but a sad commentary, an old-dated commentary that when you see our face, our brown and dark skin, you cannot, you have to lose control of yourself because you cannot in any way restrain yourself as a white person, in the instance of these individuals, white males of seeing race? This was what occurred with the senator, the junior senator from Texas. Race, race, race. She did not bring up race other than her pride and sense that she is a black woman, but low and behold, the question of race.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
What Nikole Hannah-Jones did was a scholarship. Of course, there have been others who have come back and wanted to sidestep, critique. She did an amazing job. She is an outstanding scholar and writer. Well, she's a journalist and she gathered together the works of many other persons. That's democracy. That's acceptable in journalism. And she declared a particular theory, which the New York Times was very proud to put forward. You have to have courage when you talk about race.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
And so Senator Coons wanted to rebut the idea that Judge Brown Jackson is a black woman. So obviously, she's engaged with the 1619 Project. And of course, a black judge, she must be wrapped up in the CRT, which of course, everybody knows is a legal theory, dealing with how much racism is in the laws of the land. And so Senator Coons wanted to, at least from the perspective of her legal decisions, wanted to make sure that it was on the record, that she had no reason to deny or accept the 1619 Project. It was not involved in the decisions that she made and unlikely, unless there was an issue about the New York Times, unlikely to be before her in the United States Supreme Court. Certainly, questions of race will be before her and she and her law clerks will have every right to look at every landscape of this issue in America as she feels is relevant to making the right decisions. That's what judges do. They have facts presented before them, and they make the ultimate decisions.
Farai Chideya:
We originally reached out to Representative Jackson Lee to speak about her legislative advocacy for H.R. 40. Now, that's a bill to research reparations for slavery. Slavery has left racial disparities in everything from life expectancy and healthcare outcomes to the ability to own your own home.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Thank you for that and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about a legislative promise that I want to be a legislative reality. This bill is 33 years in the making. Some of our strongest supporters are the individuals we supported in 1988, Japanese Americans that were interned in World War II and were able to get reparations with the Civil Rights Act of 1988, signed by Republican president, President Ronald Reagan. Can you tell me why there should be any less response to the descendants of enslaved Africans and African Americans who spent 246 years enslaved, whose ancestors were born, raised, and died over and over again as slaves? There were those who watched brutality, hanging, the separation of families, babies being taken out of wombs, and the laying down of women alongside of those that they desired not to lay down. In essence, being raped.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
This is a stain on America's wonderful life of democracy and freedom. It is the original sin. Every indicia that you look at, from education to healthcare, to psychology, to sociology, to science, to politics, crime, all of these, you will find high statistics of African Americans. Does not mean that there is not the brilliance of outstanding athletes, outstanding scientists, the growth of great leaders who struggled against all odds from the time of our freedom into the 1900s in the backdrop of the hanging fruit. Can you believe in 2022, we finally passed the Emmett Till Antilynching Bill to make it a federal law to lynch someone? 2022, rejected for years. And so it is time for H.R. 40, the commission to study and develop reparation proposals.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
And I want your listeners and African Americans, I speak globally, to view this as a significant and singular piece of legislation, because it is the umbrella. It is the umbrella to lack of voting rights. It's the umbrella to lack of police reform. It is the umbrella to lack of healthcare. It is the umbrella to poor education where fourth graders that are African Americans do not read at grade level. It is the umbrella to the lack of African American on corporate boards or heads of Ivy League institutions or ownership in the Fortune 500. It is the umbrella of all of this. And all we're saying is give us a fighting chance. And the only way you get a fighting chance, and I've talked to people across the land, data. There are many pathways to getting this in action and we are looking at those pathways, and I will not rest until we do have a federal response where we are having hearings across America to listen to and to find the history that would get us to the point of what should be the next steps of this response to race and racism in America.
Farai Chideya:
Representative Jackson Lee, thank you so much for spending time with us on this busy day.
Sheila Jackson Lee:
Thank you for having me take care now.
Farai Chideya:
That's U.S. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, who represents the 18th congressional district of Texas. Coming up next, an installment of Our Body Politic Presents. This week from the podcast, Well-Read Black Girl, and their interview with actor and author Gabrielle Union. Plus Sippin' the Political Tea on what's cooking with the Oscars. That's on Our Body Politic.
Farai Chideya:
Welcome back to Our Body Politic. This week on Our Body Politic Presents, we're bringing you the podcast, Well-Read Black Girl. This is part of our work to connect podcast, producers to new audiences and bring you content from independent voices. Well-Read Black Girl producer, Cher Vincent, told us a little bit about the backstory behind the episode that we're hearing today.
Cher Vincent:
We did our episode with Gabrielle Union because she loves books as much as Glory. She was an keynote speaker during the latest Well-Read Black Girl festival in 2021. Her social media is full of book recommendations. Her episode is one of my favorites so far, especially the moment we talked about her high school poetry. Yes, poetry, and trust me, it's really good.
Farai Chideya:
Well-Read Black Girl focuses on the current cultural moment. That's where art justice and literature collide and celebrates the legacies of the women who paved the way. Here's Well-Read Black Girl's host, Glory Edim, speaking with Gabrielle Union about her work as an actor and artist and her latest book, You Got Anything Stronger?
Glory Edim:
I really want to talk to you about the joy of your life and what you found brought you joy when you were writing both of your books.
Gabrielle Union:
The process of writing itself, I find so much joy in. A lot of joy and a lot of peace. I'm finding that the older I get the things that soften my heart, that don't cause those jumps, that rollercoaster of emotion that I used to think was fun and entertaining and necessary in order to feel alive. I don't really require that anymore. The parts of me that I don't post on social media probably are the things that bring me the kind of joy that people probably aren't aware of.
Glory Edim:
I know you're always reading, you're always writing. You have children's books, you have both of your memoirs. How are you staying present? Like what books kind of still bring you joy and peace?
Gabrielle Union:
Well, the one I just finished was called The Prophets.
Glory Edim:
Yes. Such a good book.
Gabrielle Union:
We got to get into The Prophets because over the years, as I've been doing my own research for different projects, I'm like, well, where do the LGBTQIA community magically disappear to? During the civil rights movement, during slavery, during every major part of black history, where does the LGBTQIA community go? It didn't disappear. So to hear about the book, I was like, “I got to get it. I got to get it. I got to get it.” And when it finally arrived, it was the best gift I've ever been given. It took me six months to read it because I didn't want it to end. It confirmed what we all knew.
Glory Edim:
Well, that's the power of narrative too, because it's like, it corrects the record, right? It's like, this is why we're so enthralled with the 1619 Project and so many other stories, because it's like, we need these stories to correct the record and show that we had so many more experiences that have been left out of history. So yes, it's fiction, but that was a reality for us that wasn't covered, that wasn't appreciated. And now, we have the space to read about it and have dialogue and not leave people out of the conversation.
Gabrielle Union:
Yes.
Glory Edim:
One thing that I'm really curious to hear about is your childhood. What books kind of showed up or what stories did you read that you still remember?
Gabrielle Union:
My mom took me to a reading. Nikki Giovanni was reading poetry at the Oakland Children's Museum and she took me, and I was transfixed and transported. And then it sort of opened up the world of black authors and people that look like me who are writers. What? I mean, she was the first one I saw in the flesh. She made it all feel possible and real. And when you grow up in predominantly white spaces, you think that some of the things that bring you the most joy are really reserved for white people and white kids, and you're like an interloper, like a voyeur, if you will. And so seeing Nikki Giovanni and listening to her and listening to her cadence and how she would turn a phrase, her syntax, I was like, “Yeah, I have found my people.” And even just looking around and seeing other kids in the audience that look like me.
Gabrielle Union:
So it was these trips to Oakland and San Francisco where I was able to just see other black people and other black children who liked reading and poetry and writing. That kind of opened the door. And then Anne Moody was the first author that blew my world open. Coming of Age in Mississippi was the first kind of older kid book that I read at like, I think I was in the fourth grade.
Glory Edim:
It's so wild because I'm a new mom and I'm trying to figure out what to teach my son. But I always remember, I went to like a conference. I can't even remember. I think it was a reading, but Alice Walker was there. And Alice Walker said that you need to treat young children like humans, like treat them with enough consideration that they can understand complex things. Did you ever write as a child too? Did you see Nikki Giovanni and attempt to do your own poems?
Gabrielle Union:
Yes. The ones I remember are from high school and I found them not too long ago. I wrote a lot of bad poetry after Jason Kidd, NBA legend. He was one of my high school boyfriends and after he broke up with me, three weeks before junior prom in front of my dad in a gymnasium full of people.
Glory Edim:
No.
Gabrielle Union:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's okay, I'm over it, not. But there was this poem and it was called like, You Are My Crystal Sextant. And it was like, “You're my crystal Sextant leading me to my fate.” And then there was one called, Little Boys, “Little boys like to play childish games from night to day. They think they're old, but to their dismay, their years from where maturity and manhood lay.” What? The bitterness is just dripping.
Glory Edim:
Wait. How old were you?
Gabrielle Union:
16 or 17.
Glory Edim:
Oh my I God.
Gabrielle Union:
I was a junior. Yeah.
Glory Edim:
Oh my gosh.
Gabrielle Union:
Yeah.
Glory Edim:
Oh, the artist in you started early. I love that. I love that so much.
Gabrielle Union:
Yeah. It was a book of them. I mean, I was clearly just cranking about in my misery.
Glory Edim:
The fact that you remember it though, it left an impression. It left something on your heart and I feel bad for Jason Kidd. He should not have done that.
Gabrielle Union:
Yeah.
Glory Edim:
You've said in your first book, We're Going to Need More Wine, which I loved. There were a lot of chapters that you wrote that you weren't ready to share. Can you talk about why it's important for you to tell the entire story and why it's so important for folks to hear the truth, whether your experience in Hollywood or your experience with motherhood, why is that significant for you to be able to tell the whole story and not just pieces of it?
Gabrielle Union:
Yeah. I think as I evolve and as I get older and as I triple down on therapy some weeks, I just find it important for me to be as honest as possible. If I am going to be occupying a public space, I don't want to occupy that space as a fraction of me. I don't like to have to remember what lies I've told. I just want to move through the world completely honest. My whole-ass self has always served me well. And I think when you cling to the fake versions that you have sent out of yourself, you deny not only you of your own truth and peace that comes with living your life out loud and transparently. You deny other people of getting to know the real you and loving you for all the amazing things that you actually are.
Glory Edim:
In both your books, you talk about your childhood and your experiences coming to this level of being so open. How did your acting career influence your writing? Because when you read your books, it really does feel like we know you, right? Was that learned somewhere or was that something like that showed up just because when you're acting that has to come out on the screen? Did it make it easier to write the book?
Gabrielle Union:
What made the book easier to write was therapy. Unfortunately, for a good chunk of my acting career, I didn't know how to access truth, and truth didn't feel safe. And I think it reflected in my work. And then as I embraced radical transparency, I just got more comfortable what living out loud and in truth feels like for me personally. So I'm like, “Okay, if I can do it as me, Gab, I can find the truth of my character and not be afraid.”.
Gabrielle Union:
As artists, as individuals, you want people to like you. You want your character to be likable. You have to represent a whole race of people. You want your character to be beyond reproach, but that kind of snatches the truth of the character when you have to pander to respectability politics. So if I couldn't find it in my real life to feel safe enough to exist, I am so firmly committed to assimilating to the white gays and white fears that I have completely lost myself. You know, your humanity is stripped when you commit to assimilation. And if I have lost myself, how that hell am I going to find it for a character?
Glory Edim:
Right.
Gabrielle Union:
So the more I have worked to free myself and unlearn and to stop centering white fear in all things that I do and certainly my art, I can now truly become an artist.
Farai Chideya:
This is Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. You're listening to our Present series, and this edition is featuring the podcast, Well-Read Black Girl, hosted by Glory Edim. Here's more from the episode and interview with actor and author, Gabrielle Union.
Gabrielle Union:
As a lover of memoirs and biographies, I have benefited from authors revealing themselves so that as readers, we can see ourselves. The truths collected in those pages, typed out letter by letter, as they were lived moment to moment, build a community of kindred strangers. I owe these writers a debt, and while I can never repay them, I can at least honor them by sharing my own truth here with you. Readers gather the courage to become storytellers and the lifeline is passed person to person, book by book. The message remains, keep going.
Glory Edim:
I'm Glory Edim, and you're listening to Well-Read Black Girl. That was Gabrielle Union reading from her recent memoir, You Got Anything Stronger? I'm joined by Gabrielle today.
Glory Edim:
I'm really curious to hear how your love of writing and just like art pivoted over into acting? Like when did you know you wanted to become an actress and really pursue that?
Gabrielle Union:
I'm still waiting for that moment. It's because I wasn't in drama club. It was never a thing for me. So I got this internship at a modeling agency and eventually the man I had been interning for, he was like, “Well, let's just make up a fake resume and send you in and see how you do.” So I was like, “How hard could this be?” And I booked my first audition. But it was still nothing that I thought like I wanted to do. I didn't want to give up my good job. You know how we are. And my good job was making $6.16 an hour as the book buyback supervisor at UCLA bookstore, I thought that was going to be the pathway to my career, whatever that was going to be. But then the money, the first year, I made more than my parents.
Glory Edim:
Wow.
Gabrielle Union:
And they were like, “Listen, I think this acting thing is going to work out. I also need a new roof.” So for a long time, it was just something I did that was fun. I got out to work with cool people, but I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, for years and years until I started taking acting classes with a private acting coach and I felt like I started to understand the material in a different kind of way. And I challenged myself. And that's when my love affair with acting really took hold.
Glory Edim:
You know, everyone knows your role in Bring It On. Did you know it was going to be such this like cultural moment where everyone would be like dressing up as you for Halloween and like copying your ponytail?
Gabrielle Union:
So by the time Bring It On came around, I had already done 10 Things I Hate About You, She's All That, Love and Basketball. So they were just like, “Oh, she's the black of the moment.” But by that time, the movie was called Cheer Fever and it was already set up at Universal and they had arranged a table read. But from all of those actors, the only person that ended up in the movie was me. Cheer Fever wasn't actually the movie I wanted. I wanted Sugar and Spice, the cheerleading robbery movie. That was positioned as the cheerleading movie to have. And I think there were like 12 leads or something. And turns out none of them could be black. So I begrudgingly took Cheer Fever. I'm like, “Oh, oh my gosh, okay, well at least it's a check, the check will clear. Like, whatever.”.
Gabrielle Union:
So yeah, no, none of us took, Bring It On or Cheer Fever because it was like the movie that we all wanted and we could foresee this legacy. No, not at all. It was like the movie we took because we didn't get the movies we wanted. But then it was a big deal because black folks came out because it looked like us versus the Toros and then and people saw it and it was like, “They're like in a third maybe.” And so it was a conversation and articles and whatnot at the time, but then it's been 20 years.
Gabrielle Union:
So when somebody tag me with it and was like, “Where were these scenes in the movie?” And I was like, “Ah, time for another story time on TikTok.” Where I explained why after we finished the movie, they had cut it, they'd shown the footage to test audiences and the test audiences wanted more of the Clovers. So they didn't want to do reshoots and have to really truly change major plot points. But they were like, “Well, we can shoot additional footage that only lives in the trailer.” In the hopes that audiences would think that the movie was more equal between the Clovers and the Toros. But I think what the main takeaway is, and that you could see it easily in all of the sequels that followed were, the hood teams were always centered in the sequels. Whereas, we weren't centered in the original.
Glory Edim:
Because we wanted more Clovers, hello.
Gabrielle Union:
Well, clearly, everybody did and it's holding to this day. I mean, from day one, it was magic. Like I'm still close to everyone associated with the movie. It's a gift that keeps on giving.
Glory Edim:
Right. Right. I also love just like the friendships you have. You have homegirls that you've known since like the third grade and you guys have grown up together. Can you just talk about the places where you found community and what those spaces mean to you?
Gabrielle Union:
Yeah. I've always been very lucky from the beginning of my career that the black and brown folks around me, whether they were in front of the camera or behind the camera were like, “Well, girl, okay, come here, come here, okay. What you want to do on this next take ... ” And they just weren't interested in watching me fail. And nowadays, it seems crazy because so many people are very interested in watching people fail. “If you fail, that's a space for me. If the light goes out on you, that means it's shining brighter on me.” And that's just not what I faced.
Gabrielle Union:
Tisha Campbell, Tichina Arnold, they have always pulled my coattails, always put me on game. Regina King been day one OG, never been interested in watching me fail. That is who my community has been.
Glory Edim:
Oh, I love that.
Glory Edim:
It's time for everyone's favorite segment, Rapid Fire. So Rapid Fire is, we just say, and the first thing that comes to your mind, you should say it.
Gabrielle Union:
Okay.
Glory Edim:
So the first one is favorite children's book you like to read with Kaavia.
Gabrielle Union:
Shady Baby.
Glory Edim:
Of course.
Gabrielle Union:
Natural.
Glory Edim:
Pilates or yoga?
Gabrielle Union:
Pilates.
Glory Edim:
Maya Moore or Candace Parker?
Gabrielle Union:
Come on.
Glory Edim:
I know.
Gabrielle Union:
I mean, I got to go Candace. That's my girl.
Glory Edim:
Do you prefer red or white wine and why?
Gabrielle Union:
I prefer white. Chenin Blanc is my favorite. Dwade Cellars has an amazing Chenin Blanc available. It's legit actually. Now, available everywhere. But yeah, I love Chenin Blanc is my favorite.
Glory Edim:
Favorite Verzuz battle so far.
Gabrielle Union:
I'm going to go with Ms. Patti and Ms. Gladys.
Glory Edim:
Oh, yeah. That was a good one, even though I felt like it wasn't a battle. I just thought they were just like, [crosstalk 00:29:57].
Gabrielle Union:
It was a love fest.
Glory Edim:
It was a love fest. It was nice.
Gabrielle Union:
Okay.
Glory Edim:
Okay. So either Best Friend or Back To The Streets.
Gabrielle Union:
Oh, you're my best friend. Yes, no, of course, Best Friend.
Glory Edim:
And that's our Rapid Fire. [inaudible 00:30:11]. Thank you.
Gabrielle Union:
Thank you. Thank you. And I'm glad that they gave me extra time because I could literally talk about books all day long and I don't get the opportunity to talk about books that often. So thank you for allowing me to talk about books and writing and reading.
Glory Edim:
Gabrielle Union has continued to have strong friendships and fostered a community of fans that support her whole self. Thinking back on Gabrielle's love of reading growing up, I'm happy to see her work join the ranks of her heroes, giving that same comfort to her readers. I'm hoping that this is only the beginning of more stories for Gabrielle to share.
Farai Chideya:
That was Glory Edim interviewing Gabrielle Union on Well-Read Black Girl. You can find her podcast on Twitter, @wellreadblackgirl and find her podcast wherever you get your podcast.
Farai Chideya:
Coming up next, our weekly round table, Sippin' the Political Tea, gets into the Oscars with culture reporters, Candice Frederick of the Huffington Post and Casey Mendoza of Newsy. You are listening to Our Body Politic.
Farai Chideya:
Each week on the show, we bring you a round table called Sippin' the Political Tea. Joining me this week is pop culture reporter for Newsy and Our Body Politic entertainment contributor, Casey Mendoza. Welcome come back.
Casey Mendoza:
Hi, Farai.
Farai Chideya:
And we also have senior culture reporter for the Huffington Post, Candice Frederick. Hi, Candice.
Candice Frederick:
Hi.
Farai Chideya:
So this week, we are taking a departure from our very newsy round table most of the time to do Oscars and entertainment kiki, because that is also important. This Sunday is the 94th Academy Awards hosted by Wanda Sykes, Regina Hall, and Amy Schumer. I will say, although that I've seen like a handful of the nominated films in theaters, my favorite screening of a nominee this year was with two cute three-year-olds watching Encanto at their house. That for me was peak movie going. And in recent years, there's been a demand for more diversity at the Academy Awards. We've talked about that a bit on the show, the 2015 launch of the #OscarsSoWhite. So we're going to talk about representation, power, and joy.
Farai Chideya:
Casey, what are some of the nominated films that stand out to you in terms of fresh perspectives, diverse representation, and maybe a little bit of that joy?
Casey Mendoza:
I'm so glad you mentioned Encanto because I saw that movie and I make this joke all the time that I should have told my therapist I was going to watch that because it was a movie that, as much as it was joyful and so much about family, it was also a really good representation of the topic of intergenerational trauma, which I loved.
Speaker 11:
If I was you, I'll be really sad.
Speaker 12:
Well my little friend, I am not because the truth is gift or no gift, I am just as special as the rest of my family.
Speaker 13:
All right guys, where do I drop the wagon?
Speaker 11:
Maybe your gift is being in denial
Casey Mendoza:
Beyond that film, two other films that really stood out to me in terms of fresh perspectives and diverse representation was CODA, which is nominated for best picture and Flee, which is nominated for best animated film, a documentary, and international film.
Casey Mendoza:
The first movie, CODA, is about this young girl who's the only hearing member of a deaf family and it also stars Marlee Matlin, Daniel Durant, and Troy Kotsur, all of whom are deaf and huge advocates for a more accessible entertainment industry for disabled performers and workers.
Speaker 14:
(singing) You're the girl with a deaf family?
Speaker 15:
Yeah. (singing)
Speaker 14:
And you sing? Interesting. (singing)
Speaker 16:
What are you do next year?
Casey Mendoza:
The second movie that I really love mentioning is Flee, which tells this true story of an Afghan refugee who fled to Denmark when he was a teenager. I love that movie because of the way it uses animation to really capture those complicated topics of emotional trauma and war. But just like CODA and just like Encanto, these are all great stories about family in a way that's really universal, but also so different from each other, that it captures so many different aspects of family and relationships and culture.
Farai Chideya:
I saw CODA at Sundance back before for it went out to a wider audience, and I'm really glad to have watched that. And Candice, what is bringing you joy from the Oscar field or just, what do you think about it?
Candice Frederick:
I have to echo what Casey said about CODA. That's like my ride or die throughout the entire awards process. It is one of those really great inspirational films, but it's also very complex and very heart rendering and filled with really difficult characters played so beautifully, led by Emilia Clarke and of course, Troy Kotsur, and Marlee Matlin. I mean, all the actors who play the core family members. I hope it does win best picture.
Farai Chideya:
And what do you think about the slate of films from a perspective of diversity and inclusion?
Candice Frederick:
I appreciate that they have King Richard, which I do think is right up there with inspirational, really feel-good movies that still has very flawed characters, one at its center.
Speaker 17:
Can I tell you secret? Your sister is going to be number one in the whole world, no doubt about it.
Speaker 18:
I know that.
Speaker 17:
But you, you're going to be the best there ever was.
Candice Frederick:
It does sugarcoat, I think elements of Richard's story
Farai Chideya:
The father of Venus and Serena Williams.
Candice Frederick:
That's correct. And so I think that was my one issue with the film just because they didn't really challenge that character as much as I thought that it should have. But I think overall, I think the film is really good. I think it's extremely well acted. Well beyond Will Smith and Aunjanue Ellis, I think the two actors who play Serena and Venus are very, very good.
Speaker 19:
Where are we practicing today, daddy?
Speaker 20:
Yeah, where are we practicing today?
Speaker 21:
Well, we going someplace special today.
Speaker 20:
These houses are huge.
Speaker 19:
Yes. That one looks like a castle.
Speaker 21:
You all like these houses?
Speaker 20:
Yes. That one looks like the White House.
Speaker 21:
Which one? Which one do you like? What's your favorite?
Speaker 20:
I like that one.
Speaker 19:
Yeah, that one's nice. If that was my house, I'd put a pool in the front and a slide on the room.
Speaker 21:
Put your pool in the front.
Speaker 19:
[crosstalk 00:37:26] have a big pool party and everybody's going to want to come to my house.
Farai Chideya:
That's fantastic. Casey, what is your spidey sense telling you about how diverse the Oscars are this year?
Casey Mendoza:
I think looking at the full slate, I also, like Candice said, appreciate the recognition for King Richard or CODA. One thing that I think I noticed this year was that in past years, whenever there would be a movie about a marginalized group or a movie that stars a very diverse cast, oftentimes, those movies are about trauma or very dark topics, which isn't bad because obviously, we need to tell those stories. But I loved that several of those movies had elements of not necessarily happy endings, but things that were happy that showed kind of more nuance in a way that wasn't just dark and traumatic, which I appreciated.
Candice Frederick:
Yeah. I would definitely add to that. Often, especially when it comes to pretty much any non-white drama, it's always extremely traumatic and focuses a lot on racial trauma. That's just a constant thing that Oscars seem to really recognize. Kind of a disappointment for me because I wish that we got more female directors recognized because I actually thought it was an extremely strong year for female directors and there's only one that's nominated under the director in the director's category. I actually think it's like the worst of them. Jane Campion was nominated for best director for Power of the Dog. It's a very Oscar movie, but I don't think it's a good movie.
Farai Chideya:
That's interesting because Jane Campion recently issued an apology to Venus and Serena Williams. She won a Critics' Choice Award and during her speech, she said that they “don't play against the guys like she has to.” So this like weird flex, which was also inaccurate because they do play mixed doubles, but that's kind of not the point. They're always playing against the stereotypes of people of all genders, but Candice, how did you react to that also becoming part of the map of what's happening in entertainment, that dialogue and apology?
Candice Frederick:
My first reaction was, I didn't know that Jane Campion was this big of a tennis fan because she really talked about tennis a lot in her speech. And I didn't know where that was going. Like in first glance I took it as really nice and then it continued. And then when she said that, I think I might not have caught that. One, I've never watched a single tennis match. So I should say that. I didn't know that they actually pair against men. I didn't know that. And so the reason why it kind of gave me pause was because one of the sisters had this really awkward reaction when she said, then I was like, oh, that's probably either false or terribly said. There was obviously some kind of reaction. And so that's when I had to react to it. As far as her apology, I mean, it seems sincere. It seems as sincere as pretty much every other celebrity apology has been in the last 10 years.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. I mean, in some ways to me, Casey, this is one of those many things where we talk about the structural issues of access that women and people of color have to power in Hollywood. And then there's these other conversations that are more like the microaggressions, but on a national stage. And so how do we put those puzzle pieces in the right place? Like, is it just too much energy to bring this up and should we be talking about more structural things?
Casey Mendoza:
When I first heard the story, I read it in a headline and I was like, “Are they contextualizing it odd? Like, is that what's happening here?” But then I watched the clip, I read the thing and it was just, I think a very odd way to frame your success, especially knowing that there is such few support for women directors and women in entertainment and women in sports, if we are going to talk about Venus and Serena Williams.
Casey Mendoza:
I think there are better examples of women creating better pipelines or support systems for other women. I like to think a lot about Ava DuVernay's ARRAY, which is a great example of a grassroots organization that helps people color and women get into entertainment and support each other that way. So that's like a structural solution that other directors in Hollywood are opening up. So that's what I typically like to focus on more.
Farai Chideya:
Absolutely.
Farai Chideya:
Well, you are listening to Sippin' the Political Tea on Our Body Politic. I am Farai Chideya. This week, we're doing a special round table on the Academy Awards and inclusive representation in film with Casey Mendoza, pop culture reporter for Newsy and Our Body Politic entertainment contributor and Candice Frederick, senior culture reporter for the Huffington Post. If you're just tuning in, you can cat the whole conversation on our podcast, just find our body politic wherever you listen to podcast.
Farai Chideya:
And Casey, we should actually note that last year was the first time that there was more than one woman nominated in best director category, two women, more than one. This year, you have one, many years there have been none. So how do you measure progress over the long term?
Casey Mendoza:
There are several organizations that track who is behind the scenes in terms of gender, race, et cetera. And so one organization, The Center for the Study of Women in Film and TV, they found that in 2021, 25% of key behind the scenes roles. So directors, writers, producers, editors, et cetera, we're women. Technically, if we're going to speak fully, technically, that is up from 23% in 2020. But you know, that also just shows how slow this progress is, to get more women behind the scenes, get them to actually work behind the camera. And I don't know if that's necessarily success, but it is very slow progress.
Farai Chideya:
And then there's the question of what are the other mechanisms that work? And so at the 2018 award ceremony, Frances McDormand left the stage after winning best actress with the words, inclusion writer. So Candice, what is that? Where does that come from? How does that operate?
Candice Frederick:
It's basically a written contract that the filmmaker or casting director, whoever is like really pulling the strings to include various forms of representation, whether it be from the crafts table to the cinematographer to across the crafts team, other non-white actors, writers, things like that. So it's really about making sure that you have the fullest representation and the most authentic representation in front of and behind the camera.
Farai Chideya:
I just want to wrap up with some highlights, like what Casey has been a highlight for you this year of watching films, watching the various award nomination seasons come up and just your personal relationship to film? It can be something structural or something personal.
Casey Mendoza:
I think a lot of us had this experience where 2021 was maybe the time we were going back to like movie theaters or like being around people again. So one of the things I always look back to is ... I live in Chicago and one of my favorite places in the city is the Music Box Theater, which is a historic art house theater. And so for my birthday, the first movie I saw back in theater is I rented out a private screening of Mama Mia, because it was very fun, it was very happy. And I got to hang out with friends and have that collective movie experience, which I was very excited to have again.
Farai Chideya:
That sounds perfect. Like what a restorative evening, it sounds like. And Candice, what about you? Like what has brought you some joy or virtual adventure in your personal movie going?
Candice Frederick:
I think for me, and I said this also last year, I really like that there is more of a democratic movie experience. And I say that to mean in the pandemic, and this is a silver lining out of many things that have not been silver linings in the pandemic, where a lot of films obviously could only be on streaming or virtual viewing experience. So not just blockbusters were being the things that general audiences were seeing. They were also seeing all the independent and international films that mostly, always were a part of the virtual experience. Now because there's like a lack of the blockbuster experience, we're all kind of giving attention that they rightly deserve to independent and international filmmakers. I see some of that is reflecting the Oscars.
Candice Frederick:
The fact that Drive My Car and even like Power of the Dog, and CODA, all these like streaming and smaller movies that might not have gotten the platform. I like that general audiences are watching a lot of the same movies as critics and journalists. Because before I feel like I would bring up movies that nobody had ever even heard of because they were super small audiences, they were super niche and they were very difficult to find. But I think now it's been like, there's a lot more accessibility to those films now. And also there's not just accessibility, there's like an actual enthusiasm for them. Like, “Oh, I watched this small movie that I would not have otherwise seen just because that's the only option that we're all watching small movies now.”
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for giving us a chance to explore the world of entertainment. Thanks, Candice.
Candice Frederick:
Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
Thanks, Casey.
Casey Mendoza:
Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
That was Candice Frederick, senior culture reporter for the Huffington Post and Casey Mendoza, pop culture reporter for Newsy and Our Body Politic entertainment contributor.
Farai Chideya:
Thanks for listening to Our Body Politic. We're on the air each week -- and everywhere you listen to podcasts.
Farai Chideya:
Our Body Politic is produced by Diaspora Farms. I'm the executive producer and host, Farai Chideya. Our Co-executive producer is Jonathan Blakely. Bianca Martin is our senior producer. Bridget McAllister is our booker and producer. Emily J. Daly is our producer. Our associate producer is Natyna Bean.
Farai Chideya:
Production and editing services are by Clean Cuts at Three Seas. Today's episode was produced with the help of Steve Lack and Lauren Schild. And engineered by Mike Goehler and Archie Moore.
Farai Chideya:
And special thanks to our friends at Well Read Black Girl, with writer and host Glory Edim, and her team Cher Vincent, Brittani Brown, Keishel Williams, Amanda Kay Wang, Sachar Mathias, Mia Lobel, Leital Molad, Heather Fain, Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrell, Julia Barton, Jon Schnaars, and Jacob Weisberg. Well-Read Black Girl is a production of Pushkin Industries.
Farai Chideya:
This program is produced with support from the Ford Foundation, Craig Newmark Philanthropies, the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Philanthropies, Democracy Fund, The Harnisch Foundation, Compton Foundation, the Heising-Simons Foundation, the BMe Community, Katie McGrath & JJ Abrams Family Foundation, and from generous contributions from listeners like you.