This week, we’re re-airing some of Our Body Politic’s most noteworthy and illuminating political interviews from the past two years. In preparation of the 2022 Midterms, we’re looking at how some of the most pressing political issues continue to shape our nation by revisiting conversations with key public officials like New York Attorney General Letitia “Tish” James, who shares insights on holding Jan 6 insurrectionists accountable, scholar Geraldo Cadava, who breaks down the history of Hispanic Republicans, and Bertica Cabrera Morris, a longstanding Republican organizer and businesswoman. We also hear from U.S. Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawai’i who shares how being the only immigrant in the U.S. Senate shapes her politics, and Wes Moore, the current Democratic nominee for governor of Maryland, who shares how his ancestors’ experience with white supremacists and his service in the U.S. military inform and inspire his political career.
Farai Chideya:
Hi folks. We are so glad that you're listening to Our Body Politic. If you have time, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcast. It helps other listeners find us, and we read them for your feedback. We're here for you, with you, and because of you. Thank you. This is Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. In advance of the 2022 midterm elections, this week we're looking back at some of our best political segments in a special remix episode. We can't understand what lies ahead without making sense of where we've been. For the past two years, Our Body Politic has been chronicling American democracy in an era of uncertainty and sometimes peril.
Pramila Jayapal:
I was trapped in the gallery on January 6th. I had just had a knee operation so I couldn't even walk. And 15 feet away from me and many other members that were there, the insurrectionists were pounding on the door to get in.
Dr. Raven Baxter:
In this case, it's necessary to save lives, meaning keep people from dying, but also keep people from being infected, keep people from getting long COVID.
Michelle Goodwin:
Justice Alito refers to fetuses. He refers to unborn child. But here what's interesting is that the constitution makes no reference to fetuses, embryos, or unborn children.
Farai Chideya:
That was us representative Pramila Jayapal of Washington, molecular biologist and science educator, Dr. Raven Baxter, and UC Irvine's chancellor's professor Michelle Goodwin. As we're in midterm season, we want to also bring you a look at how we got where we are and what it might take for us to move forward with our democracy intact. From the perspectives of senators, political candidates, historians, and more we're looking at how some of the most pressing political issues continue to shape the face and the fate of our nation.
Farai Chideya:
First, a conversation with a woman whose work is shaping the historical record of a former president, Letitia "Tish" James was a New York City public defender, public advocate, and city council member before becoming New York State's attorney general in 2019. She made history as the first woman and first black person elected to the office. This week, James announced a lawsuit of over 200 pages, accusing former President Donald Trump, his business, and three of his children of committing deception and fraud to lenders and insurers for over a decade. Here's a clip from her statement on Wednesday.
Letitia “Tish” James:
The complaint demonstrates that Donald Trump falsely inflated his net worth by billions of dollars to unjustly enrich himself and to cheat this system, thereby cheating all of us.
Farai Chideya:
She also said...
Letitia “Tish” James:
We believe the conduct alleged in this action also violates federal criminal law, including issuing false statements to financial institutions and bank fraud. And we are referring those criminal violations that we've uncovered to the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York and the Internal Revenue Service.
Farai Chideya:
After a three year civil investigation, this lawsuit is seeking financial penalties and also to ban the Trump family members cited from doing any future business in the state of New York. Now we revisit my previous conversation with Attorney General James, recorded at the very tail end of Trump's presidency. Welcome, Attorney General James.
Letitia “Tish” James:
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Farai Chideya:
So, you are obviously a New York State official, not a federal official. So how, if at all, do the recent events on Capitol Hill affect what you're doing? Is it speeding things up or pressure? Or is it just the same as usual?
Letitia “Tish” James:
It's unfortunate that we all witnessed an attempted coup, an attack on our democracy, and the president and his associates who have questioned the legitimacy of this election have blood on their hands. These wild conspiracy theories that led to these acts of terror and sedition, it was an attempt to basically destroy our democratic republic. And so all of those who are responsible should be held accountable. And I've called on the Justice Department to begin an investigation into the attempted insurrection, attempted coup, and to hold all of those responsible for their roles and fanning the flames that led to this failed coup. We are working with Justice to identify those individuals who breached the capitol, and we will do all that we can to identify those individuals and to send the message that it will not happen again and it certainly will not be tolerated in the state capital in Albany.
Farai Chideya:
And tell us a little bit about the values you hold dear. You've talked about how your work is rooted in your values. What are those values?
Letitia “Tish” James:
Freedom, opportunity for all, equal application of justice, and a sense in a fair and equal administration of justice. For me, it's really all about simple justice, sweet, simple justice for all of us, regardless of your station in life, your position, how much wealth you have. We should all be treated equally and fairly consistent with the 14th Amendment of our Constitution.
Farai Chideya:
And how did you become the person you are now? You go by Tish, I understand. And how did little Tish become big Tish? And who were you as a kid? How does it affect who you are now? We love asking these questions. We've asked it several times of powerful women who we have on the show.
Letitia “Tish” James:
I come from humble beginnings. I know what struggle is all about. I've tasted the pain of discrimination and racism, and I know what it's like to struggle each and every day. And so I'm reminded of that each and every day as I walk the streets of my community, as I worship with members of my church, as I see the pain and struggle of so many individuals in this city and in this state and in this country, I can relate to them. And so it's important that we have individuals of government who look different, who understand what it's like to struggle, to suffer, and that we just not have a government which reflects those who were born with golden spoons in their mouths.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. Right now I'm living in Maryland to be closer to family, because that's what pandemic sometimes does to us. But I have lived in New York most of my adult life. And I generally live in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. And I was saying to a friend that just getting up to go to work in the morning, back when we left the house to commute, was painful to me sometimes because I would see so many hardworking people struggling and then also see a gentleman who sleeps in a doorway near the train. And he went to high school with one of my neighbors and is severely mentally ill. And that's where he sleeps, in the same doorway every day on a pile of blankets. And every day, to wake up and leave the house, I had to prepare myself to see the suffering. And I didn't want to pretend it wasn't there. So every day I kind of just face the reality. Why is New York City and so much of America, a place with such extremes of wealth and poverty? And how does that relate to application of the law do you think?
Letitia “Tish” James:
So a lot of the policies in the city and in the state are intentional. And so oftentimes you see the result of the disparate treatment of those who have been invisible for far too long. The question is why is that young man, who obviously he was homeless, why is he sleeping in the subway or in the alley? We've closed homeless beds. We don't have enough hospital beds. We don't have enough treatment beds. Our priorities, unfortunately, really don't reflect the felt needs of New Yorkers and/or Americans. And that's why we have an opportunity as a result of this pandemic because it has laid bare the racial disparities, it has laid bare the racial defaults, we have an opportunity to reimagine government, invest in the needs of individuals who are struggling under the weight of poverty, those who are struggling with addiction and homelessness, the feminization of poverty, and the list goes on and on and on, suffering from food insecurity. We have an opportunity to address that. We have an opportunity to use all of the wealth of the greatest nation on earth to address the needs of Americans and New Yorkers who are hurting right now. We've witnessed it all. We've seen it all. And so when we come out of this, on the other side of the mountain, it's important that we just not return to normal. It's important that we restructure government.
Farai Chideya:
And you've been working on guidance for evictions. Tell us a little bit about that.
Letitia “Tish” James:
Well, there's a moratorium on evictions in certain instances. People are having a difficult time making ends meet, paying their rent, putting food on the table, etc. And so it was important that we imposed this moratorium. And so we worked with the governor's office, the Office of Court Administration, not only with regards to tenants, but those who are having a difficult time paying their mortgages as well. We worked with the governor on a wide range of issues to address, as I indicated, the felt needs of New Yorkers who were struggling at this point in time, given, unfortunately, the economic situation of the state of New York, New York State is suffering of deficit. New York City is facing a deficit.
Letitia “Tish” James:
And so in the coming weeks and months, the city and the state and various localities all across the state will be adopting austere budgets. But now that we have a president who is a sympathetic president, a empathetic president, and a wonderful vice president who shares his values, we could issue stimulus checks to the tune of $2,000, hopefully $2,000. We can pass an infrastructure bill to put people back to work. We can talk about our environment. We can talk about reproductive rights and respecting the rights of women. We can defend the affordable care act. We can protect our immigrants. Those are the priorities. Those are the values that I hold. And I look forward to working with the Biden administration to make this a more perfect union.
Farai Chideya:
I only have one more question, and that is what do you do to fill your well? You've mentioned that you go to church. Just give us an example of one other thing, whatever it is, that allows you to keep doing this work.
Letitia “Tish” James:
I walk a lot in my neighborhood. I talk to children, I talk to senior citizens. I laugh a lot. And sometimes, I'm in my home and I dance with complete abandon.
Farai Chideya:
Yes, dance like no one's looking.
Letitia “Tish” James:
Exactly.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. Well, you certainly have a lot on your plate and we're very grateful that you made time. Thank you. New York Attorney General James, thank you so much.
Letitia “Tish” James:
Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
That was Letitia James, attorney general for the state of New York. Coming up next, scholar Geraldo Cadava breaks down the history of Hispanic Republicans. Plus, revisiting our conversations with US Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii and Wes Moore, current Democratic nominee for governor of Maryland. That's on Our Body Politic.
Farai Chideya:
Welcome back to Our Body Politic. This week, we're revisiting some of our most insightful political conversations in preparation for the 2022 midterms. We're sharing these discussions after the US Supreme court's overturn of Roe v. Wade, which has since paved the way for many states to adopt or attempt abortion bans at some scale. That includes Arkansas as explained here by Governor Asa Hutchinson.
Asa Hutchinson:
We immediately followed the direction of the law. It triggered the ban on abortion, except as you said, in the case of life of the mother.
Farai Chideya:
Responses to the ruling varied greatly from politician to politician. Here's former Georgia state representative and gubernatorial candidate, Stacey Abrams.
Stacey Abrams:
I would reject the notion that this is the will of the people. This was a political decision made by the narrowest of margins and done to satisfy an even narrower constituency.
Farai Chideya:
And activists both for and against the ruling have been taking to the streets in celebration or anger.
Speaker 9:
I'm excited. This is what we'll be working for for the rest of our lives to make abortion illegal, unthinkable, and unnecessary.
Speaker 10:
What really angers me the most is I had reproductive choice my entire reproductive life. I refused to hand down any less to the generations behind me.
Farai Chideya:
In late August, President Biden held a press conference to announce the student loan debt relief plan.
President Biden:
We will forgive $10,000 in outstanding federal student loans. In addition, students who come from low income families, which allowed them to qualify to receive a Pell grant, will have their debt reduced $20,000.
Farai Chideya:
And now, just ahead of the 2022 midterms, new polls show the Republican party losing the lead in some state elections for the congressional generic ballot. Here's a clip from Willie Geist, co-host on MSNBC's Morning Joe.
Willie Geist:
Specific to Michigan, new polling shows momentum for Democrats ahead of November's midterm elections. In the latest poll from Monmouth university, 50% of adults say they prefer the Democratic candidate on the ballot this November, compared to 43% who prefer the Republican. This represents a swing for Democrats since May, when Republicans had the edge.
Farai Chideya:
Even with the GOP's recent drop in favorability, the outcome of this year's election are far from certain, especially if we take into consideration some of the most overlooked party voters. Our next guest, Geraldo Cadava, is an associate professor of history and Latina and Latino studies at Northwestern university. His latest book, the Hispanic Republican, The Shaping of An American Political Identity From Nixon to Trump, discusses why many Latino voters identify with a party whose policies may seem less inclusive. Cadava says that in every election since 1972, about a third of Hispanic voters have voted for Republican candidates.
Geraldo Cadava:
More Cuban Americans have voted for Republicans than members of other Latino groups. In recent years, I think Venezuelans have gotten a lot of attention as well. In this most recent election, Colombian Americans voted for Trump at greater rates than others. But I wouldn't want to say that only Cubans, Venezuelans, Colombians have been loyal Republicans. The truth is Mexican Americans, Puerto Ricans have also voted for Republicans in significant numbers also for the past 40 or 50 years. And it's been for a range of reasons, including religious freedom. And that's not just the politics of abortion, but also religious liberties and the inclusion of prayer in schools and the general blurring of religious and public life. Also a kind of pro-capitalist outlook and anti-socialism. And these have been issues, not just in this election, but really for the past 40 or 50 years as well.
Farai Chideya:
Part of the GOP's recruitment of Latino voters, of course, involves race and race relations. Cadava says he often hears Hispanic Republicans talk about their Spanish identity.
Geraldo Cadava:
For a long time, Latino studies scholars have talked about how and have noted how an affinity for Spanish identity was a kind of affiliation with whiteness as opposed to Indigeneity or Blackness. And there are ways in which that played out in the Latino community over the years. And the Republican party also kind of fed divisions between African Americans and Latinos by arguing that the Democratic party had reached out to African Americans and catered to their civil rights interests and the Democrats were the party that represented African Americans, whereas, the Republican party was going to represent Hispanic interests. And not all of those things are connected directly to whiteness, but there was a kind of divide and conquer strategy used by the Republican party to separate Hispanics from African Americans
Farai Chideya:
In the last general election, that's November 2020, Latinos help deliver wins for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in states like Arizona, Wisconsin, and Michigan. But that's not the whole story.
Geraldo Cadava:
The greater surprise, I think, this time was that Donald Trump also won a greater number of votes in 2020 compared to 2016, not just a greater number, but also a greater percentage. As to why Trump improved his performance not only in south Florida, but also south Texas and then even states where he didn't make a great effort or counties where he didn't make a great effort like New York and the Bronx and where Chicago is and where Los Angeles is, I think there are a lot of theories. And we don't really know, but I think that's what we're going to have to explore.
Farai Chideya:
Cadaver says Latino conservatives are optimistic about the reach of their message.
Geraldo Cadava:
The conservatives that I've interviewed, they would like to believe that conservatism among Latinos is just on the rise and that newcomers are more conservative than previous waves of newcomers. And they would like to believe that Democrats just fundamentally misunderstand the motivations and ambitions of recent immigrants. And they say that Latino immigrants don't want to be... Or Latin American immigrants, I should say, don't want to be kind of lumped in together with all other Latinos as an American minority group.
Geraldo Cadava:
Other theories have to do with how Latinos were kind of alienated by the "radical left" and the identity politics of Democrats, and the idea that Latinos only care about immigration, and Democrats didn't make much of an effort to reach out to them early on in the election cycle. So another theory of how Trump did better is that Democrats themselves didn't really engage or reach out to them early enough.
Farai Chideya:
That was Gerald Cadava, associate professor at Northwestern University, and author of the Hispanic Republican, The Shaping of an American Political Identity from Nixon to Trump, as well as Standing on Common Ground, The Making of a Sunbelt Borderland. You're listening to Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. This week, we're revisiting some of our most illuminating political conversations over the past two years. If you're just tuning in, you can catch the whole episode on our podcast. Just find Our Body Politic wherever you listen to podcasts. We continue our look at Latino Republicans by seeing the people who help drive the vote, key volunteers and political surrogates. President Trump was able to significantly increase his percentage of the Latino vote when he ran for reelection. Here's a clip of him on NBC.
President Trump:
I may have to go for the Hispanics, to be honest with you. We got a lot of Hispanics. We love our Hispanics. Get out and vote.
Farai Chideya:
Trump received almost half of the Latino vote in Florida in 2020, and our next guest Bertica Cabrera Morris hails from Orlando. The Cuban born conservative businesswoman founded BCM Consulting in 1993 and has volunteered for many Republican presidential campaigns over the years. In 2020, she was a board member of the campaign organization, Latinos for Trump. Bertica, thanks for being here on Our Body Politic.
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
Thank you, Farai. Nice to be with you.
Farai Chideya:
Yes, yes. I really appreciate your time. And I want just to start with the beginning, which is the story about how you became a Republican. Can you let us know?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
Absolutely. I'm a Cuban born person, american by choice. Came through Cuba through Spain and went to live in California. I started going to college after I was of age and I was able to become an American citizen. They asked me when I went to register to vote, what I was. I said, "What I do know is that I have a lot in common with who my governor is." And my governor name was Ronald Reagan. So they said, "Well, he's a Republican." And I said, "Well, that's what I am." And I've never looked back since.
Farai Chideya:
And so what does being a Republican mean to you in terms of your values or your political choices?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
Well, I think that me as a Hispanic woman or Hispanic descent, there are three things that are very important in my life. Number one is jobs and the opportunity to work, a group of people that encourages small business, less government. Number two, it's very important for me, the security of the country. Because where I came from, the security is a big deal. I'm a mom of five kids, and it worries me. I need to have a strong leader. And number three, I think very importantly for me is life. And that a baby is conceived and it's alive at that time. I think that you can be a Democrat or a Republican and believe in that, but it seems like it's more of a conservative belief than there is of a liberal one.
Farai Chideya:
And so how did you serve during the 2020 campaign? I understand that you did play a role.
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
I usually volunteer. I don't have a job. I don't want a job in a campaign. I want to be able to tell the media and the folks why Hispanics should not be labeled in one way or another. I don't like labels. And as you know, you hear many times, "Well, minorities are all Democrats," or, "Hispanics are all Democrats." Well, not necessarily. We all have our own minds and our own ideas. And so I told a lot of stories.
Farai Chideya:
So why do you think some people at least are so confused that Latinos are not in one party? And where do you see opportunities? More importantly, where do you see opportunities for the GOP to retain Latino voters, Hispanic voters, or even gain in the next presidential election?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
I think that the reason that you see the Hispanic voters going the way they do is for what I told you at the beginning. It has to do with jobs, opportunity to do business, less regulations. I don't think that Hispanics are that involved in politics because we're very busy working, just like the African American community is. We're just working people. Whoever makes it easy for us to achieve our goals, or whoever looks more like we like do, we're going to be more attuned to be in that party. I believe that the path that we were this past four years was a good path of inclusion in every area, in the Asian community, the African American community, the Hispanic community. Hispanics are very diverse. We have black, Chinese, Jews, you call it, Lebanese. When you look at my DNA, it's almost funny. My husband said, "Oh my gosh, you have American. What is it called? Native American. How could you be?" And I said, "Cubans are from America." So that's what we are. We're just like everybody else.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. And how do you feel at this point? President Trump never officially conceded the election. Most Republicans, but not all, believe that he lost. And there was the violence at the Capitol on January 6th. As a Republican, how are you processing all of the events of the end of the Trump presidency? And do you think that January 6th, for example, harmed the party?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
Well, Farai, I do think that January 6th harmed the party, not the Republican party, but it harmed those people that worked very hard in President's campaign like I did. I didn't agree with what happened. I don't agree with any kind of this kind of a behavior. But I believe in peaceful protesting. I don't even know who those crazy people were. When President Trump was elected and I went to the swearing ceremony four years ago, I remember walking down the street and I actually have a picture of this, and I was in the middle of a mob of people dressed in black. They looked like ninjas. And I found myself in the middle of that crowd, which was similar to the crazy crowd that went into the Capitol. They were not really people that I knew. A lot of them had accents that were different than mine. They were hateful. And I don't believe that Hispanics or anybody would agree with that. No? So I think that left a big dent in our country.
Farai Chideya:
I definitely very much appreciate what you said. I will say though, that the people who went into the Capitol on the 6th, some of them wanted to kill Vice President Pence, who is definitely not a Democrat. This is pushing the envelope of what politics are to the outer edges. And do you think that the Republican party at this point needs to make an internal stand on what is acceptable and what's not? Including people like representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, who has called for violence at times. Do you think that the Republican party now, in order to keep, including people like you who appreciate peaceful protests, has to be very firm about violence?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
I think that I can turn that back at you and say do you think the Democratic party has to be very firm with the people in Wisconsin and Oregon and all those places? Absolutely, they both have to, because this is an American issue. I wouldn't consider this a party issue.
Farai Chideya:
I respectfully take your point. I do think that there has been some debate within Congress about whether or not to censure members who have called for violence, actual members of Congress who have called for violence. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have these different wings. Sometimes I describe them as the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wing and the Nancy Pelosi wing. And in the Republican party, you might think of it as the Mitt Romney wing and the Ted Cruz wing. There's different things. How would you describe yourself just in terms of what is your favorite politician right now, not including President Trump, I don't know if he would've been, but someone who's an office holder right now?
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
First of all, I think that there is an in between those two groups of people, those four groups of people that you've said. So Ocasio-Cortez or Nancy Pelosi are extremes. In the middle of that, there many Democrats that I could live with. And the same thing in the Republican party. I was one time a friend of Mitt Romney's and I never could vote for him again. And I could never vote for the crazies either. So there is a middle ground in here of people like me that are just business people, want to do business, want to live in a good country that is secure. Those are the people that I would work with.
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
I like Mike Pompeo a lot. I like Nikki Haley. Now these are not people that are elected today. I work a lot with the Republican Governor's Association. My governor in the state of Florida, Ron DeSantis, is doing a very good job. That's what I believe. I believe that we've done a good job this past four years and that we need to continue to do a good job with electing people that are that kind of people. In fact, in Orlando, where I live, we had a fabulous cadre of Hispanic candidates, but very conservative candidates. We had a friend of mine, Maria Elvira Salazar got elected in Miami. I would love to have a Republican woman also at the highest office. Salazar would be fantastic. So I'm very hopeful of the future.
Farai Chideya:
Thank you, Bertica.
Bertica Cabrera Morris:
Thank you, Farai.
Farai Chideya:
That was Bertica Cabrera Morris, a Florida businesswoman and longstanding Republican voter and organizer. Coming up next, US Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii on evolving her political tactics during the Trump administration, and Wes Moore on what his military background means for his run for governor of Maryland. You're listening to Our Body Politic.
Farai Chideya:
Welcome back to Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. The spread of misinformation and disinformation is an issue we're committed to covering on this show. It affects everything from our response to the coronavirus pandemic to racial violence. Last year, hate crimes against Asian and Pacific Islander Americans rose to alarming rates. In March 2021, a US survey showed that 55% of AAPI women reported having, "personally encountered racism in the past two years." That same month, eight people, including six Asian women, were killed in shootings at Atlanta spas. The killer pleaded guilty to murder in four of the cases and was sentenced to life without parole. As of March 2022, nearly 75% of AAPI women reported personally encountering racism. Our next guest, US Senator Mazie Hirono, serves the state of Hawaii. Her family immigrated from Japan when she was a little girl. She talks about her journey in her memoir, Heart of Fire, An Immigrant Daughter's Story. In 2021, in a rare bipartisan vote, Senator Hirono's bill to address hate crimes against Asian and Pacific Islander Americans passed in the Senate and was signed into law. Welcome, Senator Hirono.
Mazie Hirono:
It's good to be with you, Farai.
Farai Chideya:
Let's start with your origin story. Like any superhero, you have one. And it's a tough one. Tell us about your early childhood and also what your mother was going through at the time.
Mazie Hirono:
I was born in a prefecture in Japan. And at the age of three, I went to live with my grandparents because I had an injury and my mother wanted me to get the care necessary. In the meantime, my mother endured an abusive marriage to my father, who I did not know, get to know really. And his family treated her like a slave. So at one point, she finally decided she had to get away, get far, far away. And she brought me and my older brother to Hawaii. We had very little. In fact, we had nothing. We had one suitcase. And my mother started off with the two older kids, me and my brother who could go to school, and sadly having to leave my younger brother in Japan in the care of my maternal grandparents. But he was three years old and too young to go to school, and there'd be nobody in this country to take care of him while mom worked. So very, very humble beginnings.
Farai Chideya:
You are the only immigrant in the US Senate. And right, it pains me that our nation's immigration policy still does not reflect an adequate understanding of this trauma and the importance of families remaining together. How do you draw the line between your own experience and the heightened sense of migration, border, and family separation over the past few years?
Mazie Hirono:
As I mentioned, my mother had to leave my younger brother behind. And that trauma of being separated from his mother stayed with him for the rest of his life. So of course, when the president, the former guy, instituted his separation policy, and literally wrenching thousands and thousands of children from the arms of the mothers and fathers, it brought it home to me that the harm that was being caused by our nation's policy and that it would be devastating to these children for a long, long time.
Farai Chideya:
I want to transition to some questions about Asian American Pacific Islanders and power and peril in this moment. There's a lot of both. And our colleagues over at the 19th recently shared some survey data from the Pew Research Center that more than 80% of Asian Americans say violence against them is increasing. I was just talking to a friend of mine who was like, "Yeah, I'm vaccinated, but I don't really feel like leaving the house. I don't feel safe."
Mazie Hirono:
We know that there's been a significant rise in hate crimes against Asian Americans. These are totally unprovoked. I don't know of a single Asian person who feels like that we can just walk around as though nothing might happen. I certainly don't walk around with my earbuds on listening to audio tapes. I have to be aware of my surroundings. We've all seen the horrific videos. And so we need to one, condemn this kind of discriminatory actions against our community. And it's sadly not new to our community, just as there is systemic racism against our Black community and systemic racism against minorities of all stripes in our country. And the more we face up to that fact, the more we can address it, deal with it, prevent it.
Farai Chideya:
And tell us about the bill that you have been working on with Representative Grace Meng.
Mazie Hirono:
We introduced the COVID-19 Hate Crimes bill, she in the House, me and the Senate. The way I look at this bill is there are two really important aspects to this bill. The first is that the Senate was given the opportunity and thankfully, most of us took it, to stand with the AAPI community in condemning these kinds of discriminatory actions against our community. The second is that there are provisions in the bill that should result in data, enabling people of our community who experience these kinds of crimes and incidents to be able to more readily report them so that we have a database from which to make further decisions as to what else we should do.
Mazie Hirono:
But passing this bill is not going to change people's hearts and minds. So there are many other things that we can do, including probably changing our curriculum so that it more accurately reflects how AAPIs have been discriminated against in our country. And while we're at it, to portray realistically how we have not dealt with the systemic racism against the Black community, as well as what has happened to our Native communities.
Farai Chideya:
I want to move on to the economics of working families, which is in many ways, something that you start the book with. And in the preface, you have this beautiful section talking about how your mother worked hard, and you and your brother and she would lie on one mattress. And at one point, she had to raid your piggy bank just to keep the family afloat. What do you think that working families in America need now, and in your state, which is one of the most expensive states in America?
Mazie Hirono:
We all know that, at least most of us recognize that, there's a huge economic divide that is ever growing in our country between those who are very wealthy and those who are not. The American Family Plan that will provide childcare and family leave, those are all important parts of enabling our working families and individuals to have the kind of opportunities that they ought to have in our country. Clearly, the richest corporations and individuals should be paying their fair share of taxes.
Farai Chideya:
Do you think that the plans that President Joe Biden and the Democrats have to change the tax code will in fact proceed in this very stratified political environment?
Mazie Hirono:
Well, we may have to do it without any Republican votes because Mitch McConnell has made it clear that he has a little to no intention of supporting that method of paying for the programs that Joe Biden wants to put forward. When you have the Republican leader saying that he is not going to do anything or anything much to help Joe Biden reach his goals, you create a situation where a compromise will be very hard, where bipartisan efforts will be very hard. If Mitch McConnell tomorrow said, "I will work with the Democrats to get things done for the people of our country," things will happen. Because I think the majority of his caucus wants to help their own constituents. We all want to achieve big things in a bipartisan way, but that doesn't mean that we haven't learned something from four years of nothing much happening for the people of our country through Mitch McConnell's leadership. Having learned from that, if we want to get things done, we are going to have to look at other processes such as reconciliation. And I do believe that we need to do filibuster reform so that these big bills do not require 60 votes to go anywhere.
Farai Chideya:
That was US Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, and author of Heart of Fire, An Immigrant Daughter's Story. The midterms election season has produced some real plot twists, including ideological rifts between members of the same party. Last year, we spoke to Wes Moore, who at the time was a candidate in the Democratic primary for governor of Maryland. He's now the Democratic candidate in the general election, running against Trump-endorsed Republican candidate, Dan Cox. Both Moore and Cox are vying to replace centrist Republican Governor Larry Hogan. Some of the biggest fireworks in this race have been between outgoing Governor Hogan and GOP candidate Cox, who Hogan has called a nut and a QAnon whack job with no chance whatsoever. And in an interview with WGMD radio on the Eastern shore of Maryland, Governor Hogan also set up Cox, "He wanted to hang my friend, Mike Pence, and took three busloads of people to the Capitol."
Farai Chideya:
It's all part of the arc of history we cover here on Our Body Politic and a case study about how parties are positioning themselves in the 2022 midterms. Wes Moore, who grew up in the Bronx and Baltimore is looking to make his mark on the state of Maryland. He's held a lot of roles: CEO of an anti-poverty foundation, founder of a higher education company, author, and US Army officer. Last year, he joined me to talk about a range of topics, including how his family faced extremism in the US over generations and how his wide ranging background informs his run for office. Now, we revisit an interview from September 2021 with Maryland gubernatorial candidate Wes Moore.
Farai Chideya:
You have Baltimore as part of your platform, a Baltimore renaissance strategy. One of the things that strikes me is that Baltimore is so rich in land, and it's also rich in beautiful old buildings. The racial dynamics have definitely slowed the growth. One of my aunts said Baltimore will never be great until it deals with racism. Does that resonate with you?
Wes Moore:
It doesn't just resonate with me, I would extend it past Baltimore, it's the state, it's our country. I think about it in context of my journey. Johns Hopkins University, which is my alma mater, I actually became the first Black Rhodes Scholar in the history of Johns Hopkins University. And I remember we were always taught about the history of Johns Hopkins and how he was a great abolitionist and that type of thing. And just recently, it came out that while certain aspects of that legacy are real, he was also a slave owner. And that part was never told to us. They left that part out.
Wes Moore:
It actually represented this really devious completion of the places where I've been trained, the places where I've been educated, whether you're talking about the fact that it was at Johns Hopkins University that I became a Rhodes Scholar. I also understand the history of Cecil Rhodes, the fact that he was a virulent racist, and the amount of Black bodies that were taken due to him and his actions. That I was trained on military bases, places like Fort Benning and Fort Bragg. Fort Bragg was named after Braxton Bragg, who is a Confederate general. And so I think it is something that the city of Baltimore, it's something that all of us really have to wrestle with this idea and with this fact that forms of truth and reconciliation are important for us to be able to move forward and heal collectively, that history does matter.
Farai Chideya:
Your family history includes your great-grandfather and your young grandfather fleeing the South to go to Jamaica because they were being hounded by the Klan.
Wes Moore:
Yes.
Farai Chideya:
And your grandfather later returned to the US. That's an extraordinary story. What does it do to you to hold that story? What does it inspire in you?
Wes Moore:
It's one of the most empowering stories that I lean on every single day. My great-grandfather was a minister and a very vocal minister. And he got vocal to the point that you're right, literally the Ku Klux Klan ran my family out of this country. And my great-grandfather and my family said, "We'll never go back there. We'll never go back to this country." With the exception of my grandfather. And so when he came back to the United States, he went to school at Lincoln University, an HBCU in Pennsylvania. He became the first Black minister in the history of the Dutch Reform Church, and he followed in his father's footsteps. And what was amazing for I is that when he became the first Black minister of literally a church that was the official church of apartheid South Africa, it wasn't like it was met roundly with applause. The same threats that his father got, he was now getting. And he stayed.
Wes Moore:
And so I lean on his story. I lean on his journey. I lean on the fact that my father who died right before my fourth birthday, he insisted on giving me the middle name of Watende. And I didn't know until later on, and my mother didn't realize, the name Watende means revenge will not be sought.
Farai Chideya:
Wow.
Wes Moore:
And I think those serve as just core motivations in my life about how I think about what is my job here and what do I want to do with my time here?
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. In America's newsrooms, we've had a really hard time naming extremism for what it is. I've covered extremists for 25 years, including entities like the Klan. I remember being 25 years old and reading about different Klan groups and deciding which one was least likely to kill me when I interviewed them. Because I didn't want to go to those guys in Ocean City because they had murdered a Black man who was riding in a car with a white woman. I was just going to go to the guys in Frederick who didn't kill anyone. And I bring that up because we in the news industry have not always paid attention to the rise of extremism. And the story about your great-grandfather and grandfather having to leave this country, of course evokes for me January 6th and the insurrection. What do you think that your ancestors would make of us being a hundred-plus years in the future and still dealing with this?
Wes Moore:
I remember speaking with my mom that day and having this feeling of just absolute rage. The thing that was just very disheartening to me was the lack of surprise that I think my mom or I felt. We as a nation, for issues that we are not prioritizing, we have a history of being able to think that pacification of it is enough. And as we used to say in the military, it's like it's take and hold. It's not just take. If you lose vigilance, if you lose a sense of understanding that all these things are temporary if you allow them to be so, then we end up getting caught up in situations that we're scratching our heads and wondering how we got here. Well, we got here because we allowed it. And there's work that we have to do to make sure that these type of issues that we are fighting for and will continue to fight for can actually get done with a sense of permanence.
Farai Chideya:
Of course there have been military veterans active in the extremist movements, including the January 6th insurgency. And as someone with a number of veterans in my family, it's so much on my mind right now. How should America think of veterans and welcome back veterans?
Wes Moore:
Yeah. What people need to remember from veterans is first it's important for there to be the space for veterans to be able to tell their stories. Sometimes people will say, "Well, thank you for your service," but never actually asking the second question about, "What exactly was your service?" We generally want to talk about the experiences that we had because we are proud of them and we're proud of the people that we serve with. The second piece is I actually think it's also really important for society to think about veterans not necessarily as challenges that need to be solved or what we can do to help them, but it's to be honest to think about what veterans can do to help us. When you think about the entrepreneurial spirit of veterans, we've got people who are coming back with not just remarkable experiences, but remarkable skill sets that I think it's going to be important for our society to be able to leverage in order for us to get to the place that we all want to get to.
Farai Chideya:
Well, Wes, thank you for such a wide-ranging conversation.
Wes Moore:
Thank you so much for everything
Farai Chideya:
That was Wes Moore. He's a Democrat running to be the next governor of Maryland. Thanks for listening to Our Body Politic. We're on the air each week -- and everywhere you listen to podcasts.
Farai Chideya:
Our Body Politic is produced by Diaspora Farms. I'm host and executive producer, Farai Chideya. Our Co-executive producer is Nina Spensley. Bianca Martin is our senior producer. Traci Caldwell is our booker and producer. Emily J. Daly and Steve Lack are our producers. Natyna Bean and Emily Ho are our associate producers.
Farai Chideya:
For the re-broadcast segments in this episode, Juleyka Lantigua-Williams was executive producer. Paulina Velasco was senior producer. Cedric Wilson was lead producer. Original music by Kojin Tashiro. Additional production by Priscilla Alabi (à- la- BEE), Michelle Baker, Mark Betancourt, Sarah McClure, and Kojin Tashiro.
Farai Chideya:
Production and editing services are by Clean Cuts at Three Seas. Today's episode was produced with the help of Lauren Schild and engineered by Mike Gohler [GAY-lurr] and Archie Moore.
Farai Chideya:
This program is produced with support from the Ford Foundation, Craig Newmark Philanthropies, the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Philanthropies, Democracy Fund, The Harnisch Foundation, Compton Foundation, the Heising-Simons Foundation, the BMe Community, Katie McGrath & JJ Abrams Family Foundation, and from generous contributions from listeners like you.