This week Farai Chideya talks with Massachusetts Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley about her legislative priorities, holding fellow members of Congress accountable for the insurrection, and what keeps her going in the fight for justice. Georgia State Senator Dr. Michelle Au decries anti-Asian American hate and wants fellow politicians to treat gun violence as a public health issue. TransLash Media founder and journalist Imara Jones reflects on her experience of patriarchy and Trump’s weaponization of government against trans people. And our weekly roundtable, Sippin’ the Political Tea, welcomes sociologist Nancy Wang Yuen and podcast host Merk Nguyen to talk with Errin Haines about how Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders are experiencing the racial animus of the past year.
0:53 Representative Ayanna Pressley on her goal to legislate healing and racial equity
12:44 Georgia State Senator Michelle Au on what’s needed to address anti-Asian violence
21:27 Imara Jones of TransLash Media talks about how to protect and uplift trans lives
29:11 Sippin’ the Political Tea: how Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders are experiencing the racial animus of the past year
Farai Chideya:
Thanks for listening and sharing Our Body Politic. As you know, we're always shaping the show with lots of input from listeners like you. So I want to ask you a small favor. After you listen today, please head over to Apple podcast on your phone, tablet, laptop, or anywhere you listen. And leave us a review. We read those because your ideas matter to us. Thanks so much.
Rep. Ayanna Pressley:
This is Our body politic. I'm the creator and host, Farai Chideya. We continue the conversation on anti-Asian violence around the country and bring you analysis from writers and legislators.
Chideya:
First, a conversation about voting rights and accountability with a member of the squad. Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley was elected to the House in 2018 by voters in Massachusetts' Seventh District, which includes a large part of Boston. Like her colleague and the squad representative, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Pressley unseated an incumbent Democrat. And in both cases, those incumbents were white men who'd served 10 terms in Congress. I invited representative Pressley on to talk about voting rights, reparations, and The CROWN Act, and to explain why she says policy is her love language. Representative Pressley, It is so great to have you on Our Body Politic.
Pressley:
Wonderful to be with you. I've been looking forward to it.
Chideya:
You're someone who has just been such a breakout star in Congress on so many different levels, including just really keeping it real about your journey as a human being and your health. But there is that thing called politics, and we are in quite a season. And of course, something we've been covering a lot on the show is voting rights. By one count, 43 of the 50 US states are proposing restrictions to voting rights. And so what is the role of both the federal government and of the democratic party in examining this wave of state and local legislation? And also what to do? How to proceed?
Pressley:
I have so many thoughts about that, especially just coming off of a rather contentious hearing on D.C. Statehood. The fact that there are so many who would quote Dr. King and quote Congressman Lewis, and meanwhile, continue to be obstructionists to the restoration of voting rights, and I can't imagine that this is why we need to abolish the filibuster, that that could potentially stand in the way of our restoring voting rights, which have been gutted. But we must pass the voting rights act, renamed for John Lewis, which guards against voter suppression, intimidation, gerrymandering. This multi-racial, multi-generational coalition is what made it possible for the Biden Harris Administration to be elected.
Chideya:
And so tell me a little bit about how you came to understand what the struggle over voting rights is to America and how it relates to racial justice as well.
Pressley:
I believe, and my mother certainly did, may she rest in peace and power, that a parent is a child's first teacher. And I had an extraordinary one in my mother, Sandy Pressley, who was a super voter. I remember just going with her for every election. And she would turn to me while she was in the booth, and she would pull that curtain and I would vote with her. And she would say, "Never forget that we are powerful." And I've never lost sight of that. So I grew up in an organizing and movement building household. Again, my mother participated in every election. She held many jobs, but one of them was as a tenants' rights organizer for the urban league of Chicago. And I thank my mother for being my first teacher and planting those early seeds for both my civic engagement and also, ultimately, what I would do in electoral politics and movement building.
Chideya:
So how do you keep your fortitude for this work when, in some ways, we have been making cycles through history? How do you keep up your strength to do the work and also relate that to the kinds of conversations you must have with your colleagues, both within your party and across party lines?
Pressley:
I think it's just I feel a tremendous sense of responsibility. I'm standing in the gap here. And so I can't pretend there are days where you are bone weary tired and tempted to be in a permanent fetal position, but I don't have the luxury of being apathetic or being cynical. People are depending on me. And I feel a deep and tremendous responsibility to them. So the movement restores me. And also, I feel not only a responsibility to my mother, but a responsibility to the ancestors. I mean that, I feel that in every way. And Farai, this is why I've always said that policy is my love language, because the injustices, the inequities, the disparities that persist certainly are not naturally occurring, they were legislated. And so if we can legislate hurt and harm, I do believe we can legislate equity, healing, and justice. And that's what I seek to do.
Chideya:
And our show has been consistently covering extremism, including, but not limited to, the insurrection and domestic terrorism of January 6th and everything that's been unfolding since. But what's your job, Representative Pressley, in making sure that that investigation moves ahead and that there are some ramifications?
Pressley:
One of the images that's seared in my brain that has been the most damning commentary, I think, was the Black custodial staff cleaning up the mess left by this violent white supremacist mob so that we could continue our work of ratifying the electoral college. And that was as metaphorical as it was a literal representation of what Black folk and other marginalized and oppressed folk have been doing for centuries. And that is cleaning up the mess of white supremacy. And so as a member of the oversight committee, I called early on for committees of relevant jurisdiction to do investigations. That is happening. I do believe that those members who perpetuated that big lie of voter fraud resulting in this insurrection, that they should be taken to account. I think they should be expelled. They are traitors, no less. Their actions are treasonous.
Pressley:
It is devastating that those 43 senators did not vote to impeach Donald J. Trump. He needed to be permanently barred from ever running for office again, and he needed to be held accountable for inciting an insurrection. But so far as my role, I'm just glad that I'm a member of US House of Representatives, of Congress, for whom Donald J. Trump will forever be the twice impeached president. Farai, this is about more than ensuring that a breach like this never occurs at the Capitol again. Black Americans and others who have experienced disproportionate precise hate and harm, and whose lives have been at risk, deserve to be safe, not just in navigating the corridors of Congress, but in navigating this country, where you see Black Americans and other marginalized groups having the lowest health outcomes, living in substandard, overcrowded housing, living in food apartheid systems, not having access to fresh and healthy food. That systemic and institutional racism, white supremacy is the host for all of that.
Chideya:
Well, speaking of which, Evanston, Illinois recently became the first municipality to approve reparations, which it's going to use taxation from marijuana sales to fund reparations. Do you believe reparations are possible in a nation this divided or that it should be talked about? Or is it just too outside the purview right now?
Pressley:
There is precedence for this. And although I think it is challenging to put a price tag on centuries of hurt, harm, and trauma and legislated oppression, I think that this is the moment of reckoning. We are at an inflection point. But what I would not want anyone to think that our work is done. We're talking about undoing centuries of hurt and harm. And so I'm looking at it from every standpoint. So I've introduced things like the baby bonds bill with Senator Booker. I'm calling for the canceling of student debt, which I see as a racial justice issue. I'm doing work around the Black maternal mortality crisis. And I could go on and on. When it comes to undoing centuries of hurt and harm, this is not a matter of or, it's a matter of and. And so I do believe that this is the season for reparations, especially with this new administration that says and asserts that they want to build back better. Bearing that in mind, we can't have a recovery. That level sets us to an unjust, status quo, insufficient normal. This has got to be about charting a different path forward for society that is more equitable and that is more just.
Chideya:
One of the things... You have so many areas of legislation right now that you're active in, but one thing that some people may know about and others won't is The CROWN Act. Why is The CROWN Act important to you?
Pressley:
Yeah, because... Well, first of all, we have protections for other forms of discrimination in the workplace. But we don't have anything relative to hair. And the statistics are staggering. Something like 80% of Black women say that they have experienced discrimination in their workplace. 50% believe that it stood in the way of their being promoted internally. And so what The CROWN Act is, however you rock your crown, whether it is bald, whether it is Senegalese twists or an Afro or hair extensions, you deserve to show up in the workplace as your authentic self. So that's why The CROWN Act matters. Look, I keep going back to Amanda Gorman, my goodness, right? And in the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, one of the lines from her poem that resonates with me the most is that we do not seek to be a more perfect union, we seek to be a more purposed union. So how can we be a more purposed union? It is when people have the permission and feel safely, that they can show up exactly as they are and bring to bear their contribution.
Chideya:
Representative Pressley, thank you so much for joining us.
Pressley:
Thank you.
Chideya:
That was Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, representative from Massachusetts. The recent deadly attacks at three spas in the Atlanta area brought national attention to a rising tide of anti-Asian violence. Just one day before the shootings, Georgia State Senator Michelle Au had taken to the floor to talk to her colleagues about the dangers of anti-Asian violence in their state. After the attacks, she says, people asked her how she was able to be so prophetic. And her response was that this violence has been happening all along. Georgia State Senator Michelle Au, welcome to Our Body Politic.
Dr. Michelle Au:
Thank you so much for having me.
Chideya:
What are your top priorities right now as a legislator and as a human being?
Au:
I would say I have three top priorities right now, and I group them into three basic categories. The first is what I was trying to do on Monday in the first place, which is to raise awareness of this issue. The second thing I want to focus on is really supporting the communities and the families that have been affected by this particular crime. We tend to perpetuate this notion that Asian American victims are invisible and don't exist, and their stories are not important and are not heard. So I really want to focus on the victims in the way that are most helpful to them. And the third thing is turning this energy and this grief towards productive work. So we have released a slate of three bills. Two of these have to do with in-language outreach for law enforcement. Having translation services uniformly in 911 services in the State of Georgia and having officers of the peace have some basic language training or proficiency, just even a little card for like standard stock phrases, “Are you in danger? Do you need help?” Because we saw this in this incident, that we had victims and victims' families who didn't speak English and they were basically ignored and they weren't being helped.
And the final piece of this legislation is a gun safety bill. This particular gunman purchased his firearm the morning of the crime, and by that evening had killed eight people. This should not be okay. And we cannot live in a state where it is easier to purchase a firearm and kill eight people the same day, but hard to vote, register to vote on the same day. This is an opportunity to examine what kind of priorities we have as a state and what we want to be moving forward.
Chideya:
And you bringing up guns of course, makes me think of another tragedy in Colorado, which happened after the ones in Georgia and also, I mean, in that case, there was a decision not to move ahead with additional gun regulation shortly before the killing. How do you expect to talk to your colleagues in the Georgia State Senate about why the guns aspect of what you're talking about in your legislative package is important?
Au:
What I would say is that gun safety and gun violence is not a political issue. Gun safety is a public health issue, and this is how I always come at it. Because this, I think defangs the issue and it makes it easier to talk about. And I'll just frame it this way, if you had some other disease state or risk factor that led to 300 people being injured per day in this country, if you had another form of injury or disease that had a 30% fatality rate, or that took the lives of 3,600 kids and teenagers per year, you bet we'd be studying that and you bet we'd be doing something about it.
Chideya:
And you also spoke to one of our contributors on the show, Errin Haines, editor-at-large at The 19th, about the model minority myth and how it intersects with the work we need to do in this country. Could you just tell us a little bit about that?
Au:
Right. The model minority myth is this flawed sensibility that Asian Americans are somehow A, a monolith, that we have the same kinds of backgrounds and the same sort of presentation externally. And that this presentation is sort of more uniformly successful, that we're more uniformly high-achieving, high-income. I think oftentimes, people, when they talk to Asian Americans about the model minority myth, they say, “What's wrong with that? Why wouldn't you want everyone to think that you're doing great?” Like, “Take it as a compliment, geez.” Like that sort of sentiment. But what it allows people to do is to erase the full scope of our collective experience. And what it also does is it allows people to use the “Asian American example,” and I put that in quotes, to drive a wedge between Asian American groups and other racial minorities in this country. Because it allows people who are empowered to point to the example, this flawed, idealized example of, here's what a minority group can achieve if only you ... I'm putting this in quotes because it's ridiculous. “If only you work hard, if only you study real hard in school, then you can succeed.” Right? So other groups who don't manage to do this, that it's their fault, right? This allows them to fracture minorities who should be working together because these are not Asian American issues, these are not Black American issues, these are not Latinx issues, LGBTQ issues. These are everyone's issues and there's commonalities around all of them.
Chideya:
What I'm going to end on is AAPI political power. Georgia is a state where there was a lot of Asian American, Pacific Islander, political strength, political strategy, engagement in the past election. What do you see emerging in Georgia and other states in terms of AAPI engagement?
Au:
I think you're absolutely right that the AAPI vote has really become empowered and galvanized over this past election cycle especially. What we saw here in the State of Georgia is that our turnout in the general election and in our special Senate runoffs, where we elected Jon Ossoff and Reverend Warnock, that our Asian turnout basically doubled since last time. I think there's a couple of reasons why. One is, I think that Georgia is rapidly diversifying. So there's more of us, first of all. Secondly, referring back to something we've been talking about before is that the electorate has become incredibly more engaged, lots of it directly in response to our previous presidential administration fomenting xenophobic, racist sentiments against us, and frankly, making us feel unsafe. And the second thing is that it's really motivated people to run for office.
I never thought I would run for office. This was not something I had planned. It had never entered my mind really up until about two years ago. Part of the reason that I ran for office is because on the morning of November 9th, 2016, you wake up that morning, you see the election results, and what you realize is that no matter what you think you've been doing, and no matter what good you think you perform in your day-to-day life, obviously it's not enough and you need to start doing more. I'm a physician in my regular life. So what I did in reaction to that feeling was to get a degree in public health, because I thought this is the way to start helping more people. To not just help patients one at a time, but to help people on a population scale, on a community basis. But once you do that, you realize that really that the lever arm of public health is policy and the way to make that change you want to see is actually to get involved in legislature. And I think I hear versions of this story, maybe not down to the letter, but this motivation to make up for the bad change that we saw by becoming part of that good change. And I think that's why we now have five AAPI legislators in the State of Georgia. It's the most we've ever had. And I only expect that that's going to grow over the next few election cycles.
Chideya:
Well, Senator Au, it's been fantastic speaking with you. Thank you so much.
Au:
Thank you for having me.
Chideya:
That was Michelle Au. She represents the 48th district in the metro Atlanta area in the Georgia State Senate.
We love to hear from you, our listeners. And so we invite you every week to give us a call on the Speak Line. This week, we're asking, if you're planning to get vaccinated or already have been, what is the most important thing you want to do once you've gotten the vaccine? To leave us your message, call (929) 353-7006. That's (929) 353-7006. Or go to ourbodypolitic.show for a Google form to respond in writing.
A majority of Americans support protecting LGBTQ people against discrimination in jobs, public spaces, and housing. That figure includes 62% of Republicans and 85% of Democrats surveyed by the Public Religion Research Institute. The Equality Act, which is making its way to the U.S. Senate would enshrine these protections. Imara Jones has called the Equality Act an essential step towards ensuring human rights for all Americans. Jones is an award-winning journalist and creator of the content brand TransLash Media. I wanted to know more about her media work and what she thinks the Biden-Harris Administration can do to protect trans people. Welcome, Imara.
Imara Jones:
Thank you for having me.
Chideya:
You are a one-woman empire and your podcast has gotten a lot of notice. One of the many interviews that I just got so much from was an interview with Debi Jackson, who's a woman from an Evangelical family background whose daughter is trans, and whose become an advocate for families. This line stuck out with me.
Debi Jackson:
I didn't want my child to have to experience being a girl or a woman in our society.
Chideya:
And really what she was talking about is all of the constrictions that are put on girls and women, and that now she gave birth to someone she thought might be a boy and then thinking about like, “Oh wow! My child is going to have to face all the baggage I faced.” How did you feel during that interview?
Jones:
That is one of my favorite interviews, and that's one of my favorite interviews because it takes us into the life and the mindset of people that we never get a chance to talk to, white Evangelicals from the South. And why they are so focused on gender and trans issues. And this is a person who was raised in that tradition, who essentially had to grow out of it because of the love that she had for her child. And I was blown away by that comment. Not that Debi would be disappointed that Avery was a girl because of the dreams that Debi had for the boy that she believed that she had given birth to, but because exactly as she said, she did not want her to face all of the challenges that girls and women face. And to me, it underscored the thing that I have felt, and I feel so incredibly deeply that the lives of women, all women are deeply intertwined. That wasn't about being cis or trans, that was about being a woman.
Chideya:
I want to ask you about your experiences with gender kind of through the lens of current events. So we've seen some obviously, repression, oppression of women never goes out of style. And I want to know how you as a person are relating to the specific challenges of our era.
Jones:
Understanding my own gender and the way in which it relates to the larger moment, compels me to fight for gender equality and for destruction of patriarchy, because I really do believe that that is such a negative force for all of us. And I'm not talking about men, I'm talking about patriarchy. So I want to be clear about that.
Chideya:
Yeah.
Jones:
Even in Black communities, patriarchy is a massive barrier to joy, to equality, to healthy families, to you name it. So for instance, an incident where I feared... And here's a trigger warning for people, where I was sexually harassed and I feared I was about to be sexually assaulted in the back of a Lyft. And understanding that at that moment, it didn't matter who I was, or what I did, or where I was going, or what I knew, or how smart I thought I was, in that moment, in the back of that vehicle, in those locked doors, I was an object. And just understanding that that is a daily reality of our lives makes me want to end patriarchy because it really is the problem.
Chideya:
I'm really wondering what you think a Biden-Harris administration should be doing as we as a nation become more familiar with the concept of rights for transgender people. I mean I'll be honest, I'm 51, I had a steep learning curve. I think I've mainly gotten where I need to go, but I'm sure I'm not totally there. And I have a humility about what I need to know in order to be a good sister to transgender women and a good sister to transgender men and to non-binary people. What on a federal government level do you think needs to happen? Because sometimes, people just aren't really that good and that's one of the reasons you have government, hopefully.
Jones:
First of all, we have to realize that we have lived in a regime over the last four years that has decidedly weaponized the federal government against trans people, in almost every way that you can imagine. And so the first thing that we have to do, or they should do, is to de-weaponize the federal government, that is to say put the federal government back in a state of mind to ensure equality and civil rights for all people, right? Let's start there, and that's going to be a huge deal because there are all these ways in which the administrative state was turned against trans people that they're going to have to unwind. Second thing that they need to do is that they need to appoint trans people across the board. They already have done that. The president nominated Rachel Levine, who's the Secretary of Health for Pennsylvania, to be the Assistant Secretary for Health and Human Services, the first time a trans person has ever been nominated for a Senate-confirmed position in the history of the United States. They need to push for the Equality Act, which would enshrine trans equality in law, basically clarify that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 does apply to us. So there's a long and large agenda, but it's because of all the harm that's been done over the last four years.
Chideya:
And then finally, just quickly, you always shout out "trans joy." What does that phrase mean to you?
Jones:
It means life. For instance, last year, where we had the highest numbers of murders of trans people ever recorded. At the same time, we have so much trans joy in terms of creativity and businesses being started and healthcare, and all these other things. And it's very similar to Black joy that in the midst of the crucible of pain and marginalization, there's also the hope and the creativity which keeps us alive and growing. And so I think that's what trans joy means to me. It means life.
Chideya:
Imara, thank you so much for joining us.
Jones:
Thank you so much for having me.
Chideya:
Since we recorded with Imara, the U.S. Senate confirmed Dr. Rachel Levine as Assistant Secretary of Health at the Department of Health and Human Services. That was in Imara Jones, Founder of TransLash Media. Find the TransLash podcast wherever you find your podcast.
This week on Sippin' the Political Tea, Errin Haines leads a discussion about rising violence against Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders.
Errin Haines:
Joining me is Dr. Nancy Wang Yuen, author of "Reel Inequality: Hollywood Actors and Racism." She is also a Media Expert on PBS's excellent documentary series, which I highly recommend, folks, "Asian Americans." And Merk Nguyen is a Co-Host and Producer of YR Media's Adult ISH, a show for almost adults figuring out their issues. Welcome to the Roundtable, Nancy.
Nancy Wang Yuen:
Thanks for having me, Errin.
Haines:
And thank you for joining us, Merk.
Merk Nguyen:
Glad to be here.
Haines:
So before we get into this, I just want to give a disclaimer here. It's pandemic working from home life, I hear a little construction happening outside of my building. So just apologies to everybody listening in advance if any of that comes up. First, let's just check in with each other because it's been a week and a half of bad news. I mean first, there were the massacres in Atlanta, in my home state of Georgia, as well as a shooting in Boulder, Colorado. So let me just start by asking, how are you holding up, Nancy?
Wang Yuen:
I'm barely holding on, I think. I am talking a lot about this and I think it's a moment, it's a terrible moment, it's an awful moment, but people are listening. And so I am speaking as much as possible and barely processing. I did have a little breakdown over the weekend, so I'm hanging in there. But I am doing my best to empower people with knowledge.
Haines:
Yeah. I'm sure that that is resonating with a lot of folks and I appreciate your transparency on that. What about you, Merk?
Nguyen:
Man, mental health has been dwindling for sure, even before all of this. And I think I'm the opposite of Nancy in that this is the first time I'm openly talking about it in addition to smaller conversations I've had, just because I was not at a place where I could open up that box.
Haines:
Absolutely. For me, this has been pretty surreal. In the midst of a pandemic, I mean it's happened in a month where we marked a year since all of us went on lockdown and the idea that these mass shootings and that this violence could be going on in the middle of a global public health crisis, it's just really too much, I think, for a lot of us to even imagine. And I certainly understand where both of you are coming from on that. So Merk, I want to turn to you because your work has focused on younger folks that are coming into adulthood. And really, I want to know what are the discussions about how race and gender play into what happened?
Nguyen:
The thing is intersectionality is a big word that I don't think I grew up with, but it's part of the narrative that I think my generation of... I'm on the cusp, but basically Gen Z just is familiar with. So it's easier to enter in these kinds of conversations in comparison to, let's say, my sister who's 30 and a millennial. That dialogue just wasn't part of the norm. And so while these conversations are harder to have, I think more people are willing to have them because they do have that language, because we do live in this really, I mean, digital tech heavy world where we just have all the information at our fingertips. I mean it's definitely hard because even in our feeds, we're seeing different things. And some people honestly choose not to engage in these conversations because it's difficult. I, myself, sometimes am one of those people. And the thing is, from my perspective as a Vietnamese American, these kinds of conversations among my cousins and their moms or their parents, or even me and my parents, it's like they experienced so much ish when they were growing up in the Vietnam War and stuff. And so it's like they don't see this as big of a problem because they're like, "Yeah, that's just the way it is." But what that does to you is I can't just live my life. I know that you face a lot more atrocious things, but what's happening today is like our current war.
Haines:
Wow, that's really interesting to think about. I mean the idea that they survived something and what that has done to their psyche. But certainly, that does not dismiss or diminish what it is that is happening in the Asian American community now as a result of, frankly, the racist rhetoric that surrounded this pandemic. Nancy, I want to come to you on this because I'm wondering about what you're seeing in terms of the concern that had already been present around elders in the Asian American community and how that now frankly is including this race and gender piece.
Wang Yuen:
So I think elders have always been vulnerable in the United States. It's all the other racial violence that we're seeing because there's more documentation, cell phones, there's more social media transmission. So we're hearing about it, but I think elders have always been targeted. And now we know, and also because of the uptick since COVID. And so many of our elders are immigrants. And I think that this is what Merk was saying that they're coming to this country with the idea that they are maybe guests and that they are not necessarily going to expect rights right away, right? And so the quieting and the, "Let's move on, let's just try to make the best of it," is definitely a part of the culture.
But there are lots of elders who've been here multiple generations as well. So we can't stereotype them all as foreigners, which is part of the problem, right? That Asian Americans are thought of as perpetual foreigners, that we don't belong here. And the constant being told to go back to our country or even the, I don't know, seemingly unproblematic question of where are you from? But that question really makes us feel that we don't belong and that it doesn't matter if we've been here multiple generations. The question is still there because of our race and perhaps our gender and the intersections of that, and being made to feel that we are here only as objects and not as subjects.
Haines:
You're listening to Sippin' the Political Tea on Our Body Politic. And if you're just tuning in, you can catch the whole conversation on our podcast and listen to the full show as a podcast. Just find Our Body Politic wherever you listen to podcasts. Nancy, coming to you as a sociologist whose research is around Hollywood and entertainment, do you see a role for culture and media in being part of the solution?
Wang Yuen:
Well it's definitely been a problem.
Errin Haines:
Yeah.
Wang Yuen:
And so thinking about it as a historical problem, the last time actually I was in Atlanta, I was there for a conference and I walked through the airport. And bam, I hear this, "me so horny." And I was like, "What?" And I looked around and I knew he was talking to me because I was the only Asian woman walking there in that huge space.
Errin Haines:
Oh, wow.
Wang Yuen:
And I knew what the reference was that it was an Asian prostitute, even though I had never seen the origin of that. I'd never seen Full Metal Jacket, which was a movie in 1987, that had an imagined scene of a Vietnamese prostitute. This was about the Vietnam War. And those were lines that were said from that movie that almost every Asian woman I know has received in public in some sort of catcall. And we know exactly that that is a prime example of a racialized, sexualized comment. I see it as an insult and also a threat, right? Because it's this objectification, dehumanization. And so that came from pop culture. And even if none of us have seen the movie, that is now ensconced in the culture that we are in. And so there's a huge influence. And there's always been independent Asian American films and cinema, but I think recently, there's been more openness for it to crossover to the mainstream.
Wang Yuen:
I think about The Farewell by Lulu Wang, which stars Awkwafina. That was a couple years ago. And that was a story based on Lulu Wang's own life, so it told a holistic complex story about an Asian American woman, specifically Chinese American woman, who goes back to China and there's a grandmother. And it's about her grandmother and the culture there. And it's a beautiful story. And it shows, I think, a different image than the prostitute image that we've been inundated with in Western culture and in Hollywood. So these own stories, these authentic stories that are told by the community, about the community and for the community and beyond, right? And so I think that culture is getting better, but we are just at the cusp of it. And that's why I think we are still reeling from all the negative, all the de-humanized imagery, especially of Asian women, even before the United States with Madame Butterfly, the geisha stereotype, all the way to Miss Saigon, Memoirs of a Geisha. I mean all of that is still part and parcel of our culture.
Errin Haines:
Which is why it's so important, I hear you saying a couple of things, for Asians to really own that narrative, but also for that narrative to be mainstream. It's not just that folks in the community need to be seen, but folks outside of that community need to see Asians in a way that reflects their dignity and totality and wholeness. And so that's so important. So let's take a moment to talk about what makes a hate crime. Here's a montage of some lawmakers, Representative, Judy Chu, and Senators, Raphael Warnock and Tammy Duckworth, talking to ABC's, Martha Raddatz.
Raddatz:
Do you believe that this was a hate crime against Asian Americans and should be prosecuted as such?
Rep. Judy Chu:
Yes, I do strongly believe that this is a hate crime.
Sen. Raphael Warnock:
Look, law enforcement will go through the work that they need to do, but we all know hate when we see it.
Sen. Tammy Duckworth:
It looks racially motivated to me, but I'm not a police officer. I'm not investigating the crimes.
Haines:
So all of those lawmakers are very clear on the classification of this massacre as a hate crime. And here's another clip of Senator Tammy Duckworth talking about how hate is classified.
Duckworth:
The problem is that crimes often are not reported as a hate crime or race motivated crime at the scene with the local police officers, because people just don't see Asian Americans as a minority group that gets attacked on a regular basis. Now, if you're Asian American like me and my family, you know it happens on a regular basis.
Haines:
So Merk, what other factors make it so difficult to call it what many Americans are saying that it is, a hate crime?
Nguyen:
Because it's those microaggressions where, because they get brushed off all the time, some people just don't talk about it because it's like, "Well what is anyone else going to do about it?" Unfortunately, these things happen quite often. When my sister was working at Starbucks at the start of the pandemic and she would get customers just giving her the side eye and just having these jerky reactions and stuff like that. How do you say to your supervisor, "Hey, someone is being racist to me," because you don't know which one it is? So it's like how can you specifically say this, especially if the person you're reporting it to doesn't get what you're experiencing?
Haines:
Yeah. So that can be reinforcing the doubt that somebody may already be having, right, around whether an exchange or something like that that happened to them, whether race was even a factor in that. Let's stay with Senator Tammy Duckworth because earlier this week, she said that she wouldn't be voting for any more nominees from the Biden/Harris administration that were not diversity nominees until they nominate an Asian American or Pacific Islander. Now, less than a day later, she dropped that pledge saying that the administration had assured her that they would do more to elevate AAPI voices. But Merk, what are your thoughts on this move? I mean do you think that Senator Duckworth ultimately accomplished what she wanted to?
Nguyen:
I think by definitely vocalizing her opinions on it and letting people know like, "Hey, they told me well we have Kamala and that's enough," and her being like, "That's really not okay." People are listening. I think that she has done her part in holding people accountable to their word. And I just hope that the administration really follows through with that and I think that's her hope as well.
Haines:
Yeah. Nancy, I want to ask you if this is the political accountability, a good next step, to this conversation that we're having about anti-AAPI racism in the United States.
Wang Yuen:
Yeah, because we need people in power, right? Who can actually have the ear of the President, who can make not just changes in terms of calling this a hate crime, which is important, but also making systemic changes, right? Making sure that law enforcement is being trained to understand that anti-Asian hate is real and is part and should be considered as part of a hate crime. We need someone who has the experience and the understanding of what Asian Americans go through in order to advocate for Asian Americans in terms of institutional change.
Haines:
Yeah, and Nancy to your point, just about having government at the highest levels condemning this, you saw President Biden and Vice President Harris when they were on the ground in Atlanta last week, they made a point to meet with Asian-American leaders and to speak out against these shootings saying that violence against the Asian American community was wrong. Nancy, I want to stay with you for a minute to talk about really the perception that Asian Americans have traditionally kept to themselves, especially as it pertains to being in solidarity with other communities around discrimination, around racism. But last year, we saw Asian American leaders joining those mass protests, joining the racial reckoning in the movement for Black lives, speaking out against the unrelenting killing of Black people by law enforcement and vigilantes. And so I'm wondering if you think that we're in a moment where we're really seeing more solidarity in those efforts for collective justice.
Wang Yuen:
Absolutely. Yes, I think that young people are really rising up. But they're not the first, right? I think Asian American student movements have been strong since the Civil Rights and that has been a pattern I think that, again, we don't really talk about, we don't really know about, because we have a lack of ethnic studies history. But if you watch the PBS "Asian American" documentary, you'll see that, that Asian Americans have long been part of Civil Rights Movements. But Asian Americans are also a huge immigrant population, they are a continuous immigrant stream. So it feels like gosh, there are all these generations that keep to themselves, but that's because these are new immigrants, right? They're just coming to this country. They're not, again, familiar with U.S. history, but their children are growing up here and they do start joining movements. And I think with the rise of social media and more just ease of organization, and I think that yeah, we definitely saw that over the summer of just mass, I think, people of color and allies coming together to fight against racism against the Black community. And now, I see that the Black community is coming alongside the Asian community. And then also, just communities of color having solidarity and coalition building. And this is so important because we're not free until we're all free.
Haines:
So Merk, I definitely have seen young people being a part of this solidarity. I'm assuming that you probably are seeing that too, but would love to hear from you on how young people are factoring into more of that solidarity and the allyship that I think is beginning to emerge.
Nguyen:
We really are coming together in the ways that we are learning how to heal with each other and the ways that we are unlearning with each other. It was so weird for me to be on the other side of the screen, getting these texts of, "Hey, are you okay? I know what's going on and I don't know how it affects you. I can give you space or I can give you whatever it is you need," because I was on the other end sending those texts last summer. And to have that flip, but to know that there are people out there, my fellow POCs and Black people, that they know what it feels like, but not exactly, but they acknowledge that. As Nancy was saying, it's so important to acknowledge the pain, but also the ways in which we can form this newer narrative to contribute to a healthier culture where we actually unpack the pain, but grow from it. I mean that's what adulting is all about, but that's what this moment is about. It's about us being better as a whole and in our personal lives too.
Haines:
We're going to have to leave it there for now. But again, I would just encourage people to watch the PBS documentary on Asian Americans. I think that that is a good place for a lot of people to start. But thank you so much to both of you for joining us. Nancy, thank you for being here.
Wang Yuen:
Thank you so much for having me.
Errin Haines:
And it was really nice to chat with you too, Merk.
Nguyen:
Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Chideya:
That was Errin Haines, Editor at Large for The 19th, in conversation with sociologist, Nancy Wang Yuen and Merk Nguyen, from YR Media's Adult ISH podcast. Thank you so much for joining us on Our Body Politic. We're on the air each week and everywhere you listen to podcasts. Our Body Politic is produced by Lantigua Williams & Co. I'm the Creator and Host, Farai Chideya. Juleyka Lantigua-Williams is Executive Producer. Paulina Velasco is Senior Producer. Jen Chien is Executive Editor. Cedric Wilson is Lead Producer and mixed this episode. Original music by Associate Sound Designer, Kojin Tashiro. Our Producer is Priscilla Alabi. Julie Zann is our Talent Consultant. Production Assistance from Mark Betancourt, Sara McClure and Natyna Bean. This program is produced with support from Craig Newmark Philanthropies, from the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Philanthropies, from BMe Community, a network designed to build caring and prosperous communities inspired by black people and from generous contributions from listeners like you.
CITATION:
Chideya, Farai, host. “Ayanna Pressley on “Legislating Equity, Healing, and Justice,” a GA State Senator on Treating Gun Violence as a Public Health Issue, and Imara Jones on Why Patriarchy Threatens All Women.” Our Body Politic, Diaspora Farms LLC. March 26, 2021. https://our-body-politic.simplecast.com/