This week, Farai talks with Georgetown law professor and OBP legal contributor, Tiffany Jeffers about the upcoming SCOTUS hearings for nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson. Farai also speaks with Marcus Mabry, Senior VP of Content Strategy and Global Pogramming at CNN, about the tools we need to digest important global news coverage (like the ongoing war in Ukraine). On Sippin the Political tea, she reviews the State of the Union and GOP politics with Errin Haines, Editor of the 19th and GOP strategist Tara Setmayer.
Farai Chideya:
Hi folks. We are so glad that you're listening to Our Body Politic. If you have time, please consider leaving us a review on apple podcast. It helps other listeners find us, and we read them for your feedback. We're here for you, with you, and because of you. Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
This is Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. Russia's invasion of Ukraine has dominated global and US news this past week. We've got more on that later in the show. But right now we focus on a historic moment for the Supreme Court.
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Thank you very much, Mr. President, I am truly humbled by the extraordinary honor of this nomination.
Farai Chideya:
That's the voice of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. Last Friday, President Biden nominated Jackson to the US Supreme Court to replace retiring US Justice, Steven Breyer. Jackson currently serves as a federal judge on the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit.
Farai Chideya:
And if she is approved by the Senate, she would become the first ever black woman justice on the Court. I sat down with Our Body Politic contributor, Tiffany Jeffers, Associate Professor of law at Georgetown University to discuss the nomination. So why do you think President Biden might have picked Ketanji Brown Jackson as his nominee?
Tiffany Jeffers:
Farai, she is so qualified for this position and I'm beaming right now. I'm so excited about this nomination. Judge Jackson has both the qualifications that we would see typically in a justice, meaning the elite education, the Ivy league education, but also this really new perspective of having served as a federal public defender. Having served on the sentencing commission and most importantly, of living as a black woman for her entire life.
Tiffany Jeffers:
It's just going to bring a perspective to the Court that is new and fresh and needed. And I think another thing is that she's already been through the confirmation process with this particular Senate.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. Want to follow-up on the way that all of this played out, which was that there were a number of contenders. Even once President Biden had said, "I am specifically going to choose a black woman." Let's listen to democratic Congressman and House Majority Whip, Jim Clyburn voicing his support for Judge Jackson.
Jim Clyburn:
Let's have a debate. Let's talk to her about her rulings and about her philosophy. But in the final analysis, let's have a strong bipartisan support to demonstrate that both parties are still in pursuit of perfection.
Farai Chideya:
And representative Clyburn had originally championed J. Michelle Childs of the US District Court for the district of South Carolina and now strongly backing this nomination. And so how do you think the political stakes are playing out?
Tiffany Jeffers:
Farai, what representative Clyburn was saying to his colleagues in that clip was, let's be fair. Right? Let's take a look at the record. Let's not put so much stock into any one particular person's background, and let's not challenge someone's upbringing. Let's talk about their work as a judge. Let's talk about their work as a lawyer, and then make a decision. Because if we do that, there can be no question that Judge Jackson is qualified for this position.
Tiffany Jeffers:
She served for a time at the trial level courts, meaning she was a district court judge before recently being appointed to the DC Circuit. As a district court judge, she had over 500 rulings. Anytime parties go to the circuit courts, they're appealing what happened in the district court.
Tiffany Jeffers:
Out of the rulings that Judge Jackson issued, only 11 have been overturned by the Court of Appeals. That's less than 2% of her entire judicial rulings. And that's pretty significant, because if we're focused on what the job is, the job is to follow precedent, apply the law to a situation, apply the law to facts and make a decision. If she's doing that well and not being overturned by a higher court, then that speaks to her capabilities to do the work.
Farai Chideya:
We also have heard from some Republicans on the nomination, including US Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, who said this to CNN on Tuesday.
Senator Mitt Romney:
Yeah. I'm going to take a very deep dive and have the occasion to speak with her about some of the concerns when she was before the Senate to go onto the circuit court. Look, her nomination and her confirmation would or will be historic. And like anyone nominated by the President of the United States, she deserves a very careful look, a very deep dive. And I'll provide fresh eyes to that evaluation and hope that I'll be able to support her in the final analysis.
Farai Chideya:
And thinking about the last Supreme Court nomination, it took Amy Coney Barrett, the now justice who replaced Ruth Bader Ginsburg, just 30 days from her presidential nomination to get a vote. And that was one of the fastest nomination processes in the history of the Court. So, just speaking realistically, can we expect something with that level of expeditiousness, or are you looking to something more contentious, Tiffany?
Tiffany Jeffers:
I think, Farai, it's going to fall somewhere in the middle. I don't think that she'll have the expediency that Justice Barrett was fortunate to have, because I'm going to say the quiet part out loud, black women are going to be held to a higher standard. But I do think she'll have a fair hearing. She'll have to answer tough questions, but I don't think it'll be contentious in a way that's nasty.
Farai Chideya:
Tell us a little bit more about how you think Judge Jackson will fit on the Court, and what kind of cases she will be looking at.
Tiffany Jeffers:
So if Judge Jackson is confirmed, there's still a super conservative majority on the Court. I do think it's important to recognize that the Supreme Court justices are colleagues that respect each other significantly. And when we listen to oral arguments, what we're hearing is a conversation between colleagues.
Tiffany Jeffers:
They're working to persuade each other that they're understanding and interpretation of what's being argued of the law is correct. And so, while I don't think that ideologically it's going to shift the Court, I do think that if she's confirmed, a Justice Jackson would have the respect of her colleagues on the Court. And that they would take her unique experience into consideration, both of how police interact with citizens, with individuals, and with her experience as a black woman.
Tiffany Jeffers:
Because the law doesn't impact everyone in this country the same way. We saw in some of the abortion access cases, Justice Barrett, asking questions and making some statements through her experience as a mother, which is she's the only mother, the only person that's had children on the Court at this time. So pundits were saying how powerful that was, possibly to her colleagues, and that they were looking to her for maybe guidance about that particular role.
Farai Chideya:
What do we know about her as a person? I've been fascinated, for example, reading articles about black women who she went to college and law school with who that helped her sustain her drive for excellence.
Tiffany Jeffers:
Farai, this is so interesting thinking about the humanity and the personhood of justices and judges, and people that impact law and society. Judge Jackson is a person. She's a woman. She's married. She is a friend, a daughter. Her parents were educators. Her father went on to become a lawyer going to night school to study law.
Tiffany Jeffers:
She has a background where several people in her family were law enforcement. And so she's this well-rounded human. This is really important to consider, because Republicans have been able to frame particularly black people through one solitary lens of just being progressive, anti-police, anti-religion, anti-establishment.
Tiffany Jeffers:
That's not true. We exist in an intersection of identities. You have black people who are deeply Pentecostal or Evangelical who also fight for LGBTQ plus persons who also support police officers, who also want some kind of reform and change in law enforcement. Right?
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. Tiffany, you are a former prosecutor and Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is a former defender. That role is less common as one that gets advanced to the Supreme Court. Can you tell us a little bit more about how people with different legal backgrounds might fit into the highest court in the land?
Tiffany Jeffers:
Less common is an understatement, honestly. There's never been a public defender on the Supreme Court of the United States. So this is going to be historic and really huge. Having a different practice experience actually does matter for lawyers. Prosecutors, all of their work is done through the lens of police. They're state actors.
Tiffany Jeffers:
We never really get the experience of the interaction with the accused. Prosecutors don't hear stories of police abuse, police harassment. Don't hear how the intersection of health disparity, and poverty, and education issues, and mental health issues impact criminal activity and impact decisions of the accused.
Tiffany Jeffers:
There's something about speaking directly to the person accused with a crime, charged with a crime that changes your experience. It gives you a level of empathy that's really unmatched in the practice of law.
Farai Chideya:
I want to end by asking about a intergenerational legacy of black women in the judiciary. So in her remarks, Judge Jackson, paid homage to the Honorable Constance Baker Motley, the first black woman ever to be appointed as a federal judge.
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson:
Judge Motley's life and career has been a true inspiration to me as I have pursued this professional path. And if I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed as the next Associates Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, I can only hope that my life and career, my love of this country and the Constitution, and my commitment to upholding the rule of law and the sacred principles upon which this great nation was founded will inspire future generations of Americans.
Farai Chideya:
How should we view Judge Jackson's legacy as well as Constance Baker Motley?
Tiffany Jeffers:
Oh, Farai, I started tearing up just listening to that clip. This is so important. Seeing is believing, Farai. And even outside of any opinion that she may write, any ruling that she may make, seeing her elevated on that bench actually raised up will show little black kids that nothing is unattainable. It just is so inspirational and so compelling for us to keep going in times of discouragement. I cannot express enough how impactful this appoint will be.
Farai Chideya:
Well, Tiffany, it is really wonderful to talk to you, and we thank you for bringing your legal expertise and your historical expertise to our show. Thanks, Tiffany.
Tiffany Jeffers:
Thanks, Farai.
Farai Chideya:
That's Our Body Politic contributor, Tiffany Jeffers, Associate Professor of law at Georgetown University. Coming up next.
Marcus Mabry:
It's one of the reasons I do what I do. We have to let people understand no matter who they are, you have a responsibility to be informed about the world, because as you said, what happens in the world's going to come back and affect you.
Farai Chideya:
CNN's Marcus Mabry on how to connect domestic audiences to global news. Plus highlights from the State of the Union and CPAC. That's on Our Body Politic.
Farai Chideya:
Welcome back to Our Body Politic. As the attacks on the Ukraine continue, it's up to journalists to figure out how to tell the story of the world to domestic audiences. That is something that Marcus Mabry does on a daily basis as Senior Vice President of Content Strategy and Global Programming for CNN Digital, Worldwide.
Farai Chideya:
He's been covering international relations for decades, both in the US and abroad, and innovating all along the way. He's also the author of, Twice as Good Condolezza Rice and Her Path to Power, and the memoir, White Bucks and Black-Eyed Peas, about coming of age black and poor and gifted in America.
Farai Chideya:
I talked to him about how to produce global news for US audiences. Plus Marcus' path through the world as a journalist, a champion of education for low income kids, and as a father.
Marcus Mabry:
I do feel very blessed and very privileged to have this career, to get to do what we get to do at CNN and across the news media every day. Trying to explain the world to the world is a massive privilege and responsibility, not one I take lightly. And I think it has a lot to do with how I grew up. I'm not to the men are born. I am someone born poor, black, an LGBTQ, to a single mom in Trenton, New Jersey.
Marcus Mabry:
So nothing about my origin suggested I could be at the pinnacle of journalism sitting at that table at CNN every morning, where we talk about what should be the top stories of the day for the world and how they should be framed. And my team does that for hundreds of millions of people online.
Farai Chideya:
As someone who grew up in an American city in the Northeast with issues that you wrote about in your first book in your memoir, that demanded that you had to make decisions as a relatively young person about how to lead your life and how to succeed, ending up going to an elite school, Lawrenceville. A lot of us don't necessarily feel connected to the larger struggles when we have individual struggles.
Farai Chideya:
So what do you think it was about you that made you understand that despite the fact that you had individual journeys through American life and race, class, educational privilege, all these things that you also needed to have a global lens?
Marcus Mabry:
That's a great question. I really feel like my journey from the periphery of American society and many measures to the center when it comes to these kind of institutions of journalistic influence were really related, because being a poor, black kid at that point at Lawrenceville, it was very much a rich, white school. The majority was white, something like 4% of the student body was African American.
Marcus Mabry:
I was very used as a black boy in a very white environment. And as a poor kid in a very rich environment, I was very used to translating people to people, helping white people understand black folks, helping black folks understand white folks. That was something I did every day in my life as I made this journey between these different universes, rich and elite and white, and poor and black. And so I actually enjoyed that role of translator of ambassador.
Marcus Mabry:
And that was something you do very much in global affairs every day that you try to explain to different parts of the world. Our audiences global at CNN. As you try to explain different parts of the world how to understand parts of the world that they are not used to. And so that is very, very analogous to me and very easy.
Marcus Mabry:
The other reason is because I just had an interest in things global. I don't know why per se, but in third grade we were asked to write reports on a foreign country. And I wrote mine about France. Again, we were poor. So at my grandma's house, when we lived with my grandma, we had encyclopedias that were literally one year younger than me. So I born '67. These are encyclopedias from 1968. And this was already probably 19, what? I don't know, third grade, 1978, '6 or something? '77? I don't know.
Marcus Mabry:
So I wrote my France report based on these encyclopedias. When I was able to take French in public school and then at Lawrenceville, and then at university, I studied French. I speak French fluently. I studied in [French 00:17:09] in Paris and [French 00:17:11] . And so I was attracted to this global ideal.
Marcus Mabry:
It's also true that as African Americans, we often are. So, I just followed in the path of James Baldwin and Josephine Baker before me who found a certain liberation and in this case in France, in particular, the one can find in many different cultures. And it's always worth noting that there are other people of color who don't find liberation in France, especially North Africans or [French 00:17:37]. It's not a Nirvana for everyone by far, but certainly for African Americans, we often find a certain acceptance there that we don't always find at home.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. And of course, as you know, I come from a global family, all of which is still to say that even for someone like me, I find it hard to cover global geopolitics for an American audience. How do you do it? What is it that you do as an SVP at CNN to make sure that we understand the global picture?
Marcus Mabry:
You start from simplicity to begin with because like many different endeavors and many different arenas, international affairs can be very jargony, very jargon heavy. And actually right now I'm actually working on a piece on realpolitik which is one of those jargon words. Those of us who study international relations were like, "Oh yeah, realpolitik no problem."
Marcus Mabry:
But for normal people who are not us, it's like, "Well, what are you talking about?" And it is this idea, for instance, the United States. United States wants to be uphold of freedom. That is part of the United States' image in the world it seeks to project. So therefore, if Russia invades Ukraine, then we should stop that because that's an authoritarian state invading a democratic state. It is purely a play of might versus right. So if we're going to be side of right, then we should stop Russia from doing that. Right?
Marcus Mabry:
Well, yes, we should based on our idealism and our ideology. However, based on realism and realpolitik a means ends analysis, calculus, it doesn't make sense to stop Putin from taking Ukraine if we think that the risk of doing that, militarily, would be to involve the United States and Russia in a direct military conflict. That could escalate to God knows where.
Marcus Mabry:
So realpolitik says, is Ukraine in the vital interest of the United States? We'd like to say yes, but it is not from a rational point of view. So the Biden administration can't come out and say, "We're not going to risk going to war with Russia in order to save Ukraine." They can't say that, but that is the realpolitik rationally based calculation they have made.
Marcus Mabry:
In order to bring, again, our audience of hundreds of millions of people every month at CNN Digital, we want to reach all those people wherever they are on the scale of having knowledge and understanding of any of these issues. Be it foreign affairs, be it, US politics, be it economics. We want to reach people where they are and make it engaging for them to come along the journey so you can help to inform them.
Farai Chideya:
This is Our Body Politic. I'm Farai Chideya. We're talking with Marcus Mabry about how to tell international stories to audiences here in the US. Mabry is the Senior Vice President of Content Strategy and Global Programming for CNN Digital.
Farai Chideya:
I want to bring up a little bit of something that we talked about on last week's show. We spoke with retired Major General Linda Singh of the army national guard, who was the head of the national guard in Maryland, also served in Kosovo and Afghanistan. And she's very savvy about both US relations in terms of national security and geopolitics. And she said something about the conflict in Ukraine that stood out to me.
Major General Dr. Linda Singh:
This is going to be what I would consider to be potentially another world war, because Russia is not going to stop, or Putin's not going to stop. I'm not going to say Russia as a country, Putin is not going to stop until he reestablishes the old Soviet Union. That is my fear. And I think that is going to cripple the overall society. That's going to cripple supply chain. That's going to cripple business. It's going to cripple humanity.
Farai Chideya:
Again, that's Dr. Linda Singh. And we paired her with Anne Simmons of the Moscow Bureau chief of the Wall Street Journal. And when I heard that, it was incredibly braising. And I think that there's always a question about who you put on the air to make their case, whether or not it is absolutely going to unfold that way. I felt really strongly. And I was grateful that Dr. Singh brought up these deep geopolitics. How do you decide who to put on your air as you're discussing potential war or continued diplomacy and sanctions?
Marcus Mabry:
It's a great question. We do have a whole cast of military experts and of political experts. We really aim to get that old journalism thing of all sides of the story, especially for a geopolitical story like this one.
Marcus Mabry:
So we want to have on people who understand Putin and the mind of Putin, and as much as that's possible. We also want to have people on who understand the general European security situation. What are things about in NATO and in the EU? And then we want people who also understand us politics and where this all plays into the demands, and the druthers, and the fears of the Biden administration and the GOP opposition. So, we want to round all those out to understand all the players that are involved.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah, absolutely. And for me, I see this all as part of a whole, meaning, geopolitics and US politics in part because my family has a lot of members of the veteran community. People who served in Vietnam and who served in Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, various parts of the world: Afghanistan, Iraq. And so to me, I always see the ways that geopolitics comes back and affects domestic politics. But I do really worry that most people just don't see a linkage. I don't know. Does that bother you? Or is that-
Marcus Mabry:
Oh, yes. Yes. It bothers me a lot. And it's one of the reasons I do what I do. And one of the reasons I push at CNN for us to have the most user friendly formulation and framing of stories and questions that we possibly can because we have to let people understand no matter who they are, if you are hearing what we're talking about today, you are in a privileged position, and you have a responsibility to be informed about the world, because it is going to... As you said, what happens in the world is going to come back and affect you.
Marcus Mabry:
And it does. And we said all the time, I mean, one of the reasons that Donald Trump was able to win the presidency was because he appealed to people in those Northern, Russ belt, for lack of a better term, as they say, states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan. He made inroads with those white voters in those places because they felt that globalization, the economic empowerment and connection of all the different countries had left them behind.
Marcus Mabry:
And so their disgruntlement, and in their fear, they were very susceptible to the message from Trump that globalization had the effect of changing who was the President of the United States. So it does come home.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. So let's go a little bit deeper into you. You and I both worked at Newsweek early in our careers, yon years ago when we were in our 20s and we're both now in our 50s.
Marcus Mabry:
Yes, we are.
Farai Chideya:
I'm sorry if I'm blowing up your spot, it's...
Marcus Mabry:
We're half a century. And then some.
Farai Chideya:
Yes, we are half a century old. And I really am grateful to you because I've seen you navigate. You and I have taken different paths in journalism. I have been a bit more like, "Let me just try things that are independent," and you have stayed inside big institutions doing big things. Now, you also have been leveraging privilege for social good. So you are now a trustee of the Oliver Scholars program. We talked a little bit about your history at Lawrenceville. But I was fascinated by the Oliver Scholars. Tell me what it's about.
Marcus Mabry:
So Oliver Scholars has been around for decades. And we go out and identify African American and Latinx students in New York City public schools who are bright and gifted students academically. And we help them apply to independent schools for high school in New York city, day schools in New York City, and boarding schools throughout the Northeast.
Marcus Mabry:
And then we help them to succeed at those day schools and boarding schools when they get there. And then we help make sure they have success successful careers afterwards at universities and beyond. So that's what Oliver Scholars are. I've been involved with Oliver for a long time because I'm from Trenton. So I didn't go through Oliver Scholars. We just deal with the five boroughs of New York City. But those kids are... Oliver Scholars are exactly me. I mean, exactly a poor kid, I did well at school, would not have had the same opportunities or even known about this private school world and the doors that Lawrenceville opened up for me.
Marcus Mabry:
And it's important that everyone have access to that privilege that we can give access to. We are not changing just these students, we're also changing these schools. They are more diverse and more accepting and more aware. We are also changing the families and the communities that the Oliver Scholars come from. So they are seeds of change who come back to their communities and make a difference, and show everyone wherever you came from, you can determine where you're going. And that's incredibly powerful, especially if you come from a lower income place like I did. And that makes a huge difference.
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. And also, speaking of sense of self, you are a gay man with kids and a partner. And you are living the American dream today. It might not have been the American dream not so long ago. How do you view yourself as, maybe not a public figure, but as someone whose lived experience gets exposed to the world in different ways, including through being a dad?
Marcus Mabry:
I think it's very important. I think visibility is very important. I think when we were growing up, it was, you didn't see positive LGBTQ plus role models on television or in pop culture. We weren't really there. We didn't exist. So it was very easy for many people to say we didn't exist, period.
Marcus Mabry:
And so if you were a little LGBTQ kid, you're like, "Well, I'm the only one." And it was very hard to have a sense of self. I do think today is so different and we are visible. And so that scares some people, and they want to take things back to where they were before when we were ashamed of ourselves, we were invisible because if we're visible, then you have to deal with our existence. And you have to say we are deserving of humanity, or you have to argue that we're not.
Marcus Mabry:
And that latter position is really uncomfortable one in 2022, luckily, as it is more uncomfortable to do it for women or people of color. And whereas at one point it certainly was not so uncomfortable to do it for people of color. So things have changed. And I'm proof of that. And it's important that I be authentic and out here and visible so people can see that, yeah, any little LGBTQ kid of color, poor, or otherwise marginalized, if I can do it, you can do it. And that's really, really, really, really, really, really important.
Farai Chideya:
What brings you joy, Marcus, as you navigate a world of complex geopolitics and all the other responsibilities you have, what do you do that lights you up and gives you fire?
Marcus Mabry:
My kids just give me tremendous amount of joy. It's very miraculous to think what was the world when I was growing up where you really, it was hard to even be openly gay or lesbian, and it was scary and you worried about, can I do this? Will I risk my family and my friends' love and et cetera, et cetera? Not to mention having a job, et cetera.
Marcus Mabry:
But today to being an openly gay dad with a partner and kids, and one of my kids, one of my daughter is trans, none of that was imaginable that would be able to exist when I was growing up. And the fact that it does exist today. And just those so simple moments where we are together as a family and enjoying each other, enjoying our lives and celebrating the miraculousness that we exist, that we are here. It is joy that I can't even put into words. It's amazing to let them know that.
Farai Chideya:
Well, Marcus, I could talk to you all day, but we don't have all day. So I hope you'll come on again to keep talking about the incredible work you do. Thank you so much.
Marcus Mabry:
Thank you for having me, Farai.
Farai Chideya:
That's Marcus Mabry, Senior Vice President of Content Strategy and Global Programming for CNN Digital Worldwide. Coming up next, our weekly round table, Sipping The Political Tea gets into President Biden's State of the Union address and CPAC with Errin Haines, Editor at Large at the 19th and Our Body Politic contributor. Plus Senior Advisor at the Lincoln Project, Tara Setmayer.
Tara Setmayer:
There was an amount of bipartisanship written into that speech that I did not anticipate. I did not anticipate how many applause lines Biden got with Republicans as well.
Farai Chideya:
You're listening to Our Body Politic. Each week on the show, we bring you a round table called Sipping The Political Tea. Joining me this week is Our Body Politic contributor and Editor at Large at the 19th, Errin Haines. Welcome back, Errin.
Errin Haines:
Happy to be back where every month is Women's History Month.
Farai Chideya:
Indeed it is. And you are always there to cover it. We've also got resident scholar at the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, Tara Setmayer. She is also a Senior Advisor at the Lincoln Project and a former GOP Congressional Communications director, Tara, welcome.
Tara Setmayer:
Thank you for having me back.
Farai Chideya:
So this week, we're diving into President Biden's State of the Union address, CPAC, and potential Republican hopefuls in 2024. Yes, it's closer than you think. So, in other words, just another light Newsweek. And Errin, I will hand it off and let you take it from here.
Errin Haines:
Yeah. Nothing much to see here. Yeah, right. Everything is happening. Thank you, Farai. Tera, thank you for being here. Let's start with you because President Biden gave his first State of the Union address on Tuesday night, and it is also the first State of the Union, by the way, to have two women sitting on the desk behind the President. So that was a history making moment to start off Women's History Month. But I'm wondering what were the highlights and key takeaways for you?
Tara Setmayer:
Well, I was happy to see a semblance of just normalcy back around the State of the Union. I spent many of them when I worked in Capitol Hill. I've sat through seven of them as a press secretary on Capitol Hill. And yeah, there's always a certain amount of pomp and circumstance that those of us who work in Capitol Hill love about the State of the Union.
Tara Setmayer:
And this time around, I mean... Well, for a couple of years there during the Trump era, there was a certain sense of tension and hostility during the States of the Union that I didn't feel this time around once President Biden started to speak. We're so tribal now, and so polarized in the political space that I welcomed the fact that there was an amount of bipartisanship written into that speech that I did not anticipate.
Tara Setmayer:
I did not anticipate how many applause lines Biden got with Republicans as well. I thought it was a brilliant political move to include applause lines on subjects that Republicans had no choice but to cheer for. So it made the President look presidential. I thought he over performed. And the fact that he understood the political tea leaves, which are that Democrats are in a lot of trouble going into the midterms, and that he needed to really shore up that center, I thought that was really smart.
Tara Setmayer:
So all the key takeaways for me were he was strong on Ukraine, strong on the issues of democracy and reinforcing the importance of America's role in defending Western democracy and why we are in this fight. He called Putin out and who the enemies are here in no uncertain terms. Some of the domestic policy issues that he focused on were areas that there's a lot of bipartisan consensus on in with voters in swing districts. So I was encouraged by it. It was a speech he needed to give.
Errin Haines:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely did see a lot of bipartisanship in the chamber, particularly around the conflict in Ukraine. So many times that you saw members from both sides standing up, applauding the President as he spoke about the situation over there, spoke about America's support for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
Errin Haines:
There was that moment with the Ukraine ambassador that felt very emotional in the chamber. So yeah, I noticed for at least a good part of that first hour a lot of bipartisanship as well, but then there were also those moments where you had some signs of division I'm thinking about specifically representatives, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert heckling the President during his remarks. But in the State of the Union, President Biden rebuked Russian President Vladimir Putin. Let's listen to a clip of him.
President Biden:
[inaudible 00:35:49] Russia and adding additional squeeze on their economy. We're providing support to the Ukrainians in their fight for freedom: military assistance, economic assistance, humanitarian assistance. We're giving more than a billion dollars of direct assistance to Ukraine and will continue to aid Ukrainian people as they defend their country and help ease their suffering.
Errin Haines:
Okay, Farai. So President Biden has repeatedly said that American forces are not going to engage with Russian forces in Ukraine. But the US is sending 15,000 troops to Europe and may send more to work with NATO. So what are some of the political fault lines within the United States government on this issue?
Farai Chideya:
One of the things that is really keeping me focused on the domestic issues is, of course, there is the question of whether Americans will support troop actions, even if it's not directly in a war. I think Americans have many different feelings that can include support for the Ukraine and a sense of dismay over what we have to do as a geopolitical leader.
Farai Chideya:
But the thing I'm really keeping my eye on is the gas tank. This is one of those times where domestic US interests and geopolitical interests are inevitably entwined. And President Biden has really been wounded in his approval ratings by inflation, which includes the energy prices. So I'm keeping an eye on all of that.
Errin Haines:
So former President Trump had very different things to say about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If you recall last week, Trump called Putin a genius, and he doubled down on that comment at CPAC on Sunday, calling Putin smart and the NATO nations the opposite of smart. So Tara, let me come to you and ask, how is the Republican party reacting to Donald Trump's support and really gleeful praise of Vladimir Putin?
Tara Setmayer:
It's quite astonishing to watch the 180 turn for so many in the Republican party and particularly in right wing media in their seemingly inexplicable praise for an enemy of the United States. Vladimir Putin is not a good guy. And to try and convince their viewers and their constituents that somehow Vladimir Putin is someone to be admired because of his strength versus President Biden as someone who is weak, it feels traitorous in my opinion, especially since we are looking at the biggest conflict on European soils since World War II.
Tara Setmayer:
You've seen a strange change though. In the beginning before the bomb started falling and people started dying in Ukraine, there was much more appetite it seemed to play footsie with complimenting Putin. Since we've seen the horrors of what's taken place thus far, and I suspect it will get worse, unfortunately, you've seen some backtracking with that. And Republicans like Kevin McCarthy and others came into the chamber for the State of the Union wearing Ukrainian flags or colors to signify their support for Ukraine. So they can't have it both ways. They really can't. And Donald Trump's record with Russia is abominable. They cannot whitewash history.
Farai Chideya:
And Tara just wanted to follow up on what you were saying because there's been this framing that including a post that president Trump has made on his own social media feed like, "Oh, I was the guy who was good with Putin." And I think that framing really is obviously self-serving, but it's really about... There's a difference between being good like a diplomat negotiator, world leader and being good like, "Hey bro, come on over and look at these secrets with me."
Tara Setmayer:
Right. Being good with Vladimir Putin means what? Complimenting him as a genius and savvy as he's invading a sovereign nation and killing innocent people. Saying that even though Putin is we know that he's a killer and saying, "Well, so what? We are too in America, we're not that much better." Standing next to him in Helsinki, giving more credibility to Vladimir Putin's word than our own Intelligence services about Russia's role in the 2016 election and interfering in our elections.
Tara Setmayer:
It's really quite remarkable to see that. But this is also the same person who bragged about love letters between him and Kim Jong-UN who's another murderous dictator, enemy of the United States and the West. So it's on brand for Donald Trump. What's disappointing and infuriating is that the Republican party, which used to be the party of Reagan, the Cold Warriors who held up foreign policy and being tough on authoritarian regimes and illiberal regimes has now become more comrades with Russia than they are to their loyalty to the United States and our constitution. And I think that they need to be called out for it and held responsible for it.
Errin Haines:
You're listening to Sipping The Political Tea on Our Body Politic. I'm Errin Haines and this week we're discussing this State of the Union, CPAC, and the future of the Republican party with Tara Setmayer, Senior Advisor of the Lincoln Project and our host, Farai Chideya.
Errin Haines:
If you're just tuning in, you can catch the whole conversation on our podcast. Just found Our Body Politic wherever you listen to podcasts. A recent Washington Post ABC poll found that President Biden's approval rating had hit a new low with 37% approving of the job that he's doing. Farai, what are some of the most significant factors that are driving that rating?
Farai Chideya:
Well, I mean, obviously it is not a fun thing, or it must not be a fun thing to be President and to read that 37% of people approve of the job and 55% disapprove. I do think that there's very clearly partisanship involved. Republicans disapprove it 86%, Democrats 77% approve, and that's not shocking in today's environment.
Farai Chideya:
But really, it is the economy's stupid. 75% of Americans are saying that the economy is negative up from 70% in November. And that's an almost decade long low rating. And unemployment has dropped and there have been new jobs added, but it's really the cash crunch of inflation, which we have talked about consistently on this show. So I think that economic anxiety is really driving the bus here.
Errin Haines:
Yeah. Tara, that same post ABC poll that Farai just mentioned also found that if the election was held today, 49% of registered voters would support the Republican candidate versus 42%, who would support Democrats. So what does that say to you about what we can expect in this year's midterms?
Tara Setmayer:
It should have a five alarm fire, raise a five alarm fire for the Democrats. The fact that traditionally Republicans have been considered better on the economy, and so I'm not surprised by a generic ballot right now with that. It's true, it is the economy. It's always going to be the driving factor because that's what impacts people's lives every single day.
Tara Setmayer:
Most people do not wake up and say, "Oh my goodness, how is our democracy under attack today?" Most people don't think like that. They go to the grocery store or to the gas pump and realize, "Oh my goodness, it's costing me X amount more dollars to fill up my tank and to buy groceries."
Tara Setmayer:
That's how people usually base their voting behavior on. Am I better off than I was X amount of years ago? Those political adages remain. But it goes back to Farai's point about the State of the Union and how Republicans are using some wedge issues and some kitchen table issues to attack President Biden, whether it's fair or not. Whether he actually has control over certain things or not, doesn't matter. He's the President. He gets the blame or the credit.
Tara Setmayer:
And the idea of energy policy now being at the forefront because gas prices are so high, that's a metric, that's a political metric that cannot be ignored. If gas prices are still creeping up to $4 a gallon when people start voting for midterms, the Democrats are going to be in a lot of trouble.
Errin Haines:
Yeah. And Farai, I want to come to you because the other thing that happened on Tuesday night in case you missed it, watching the State of the Union was there was a primary in Texas. And I'm wondering if there is anything that we can glean from those tea leaves about that Texas primary that we saw on Tuesday night?
Farai Chideya:
Yeah. I mean, this was considered a victory for establishment Republican politicians. You had Governor Greg Abbot winning his primary and also, side note, Beto O'Rourke will be the Democratic gubernatorial nominee. So we'll see him coming back on stage. And George P. Bush is now in a runoff against Ken Paxton who's the Donald Trump endorsed State Attorney General. So it seems to be an alignment to establishment, which is still in this era, I think informed by culture war and informed by other tactics that the establishment uses. But that was a very distinct first move in the term primary season.
Errin Haines:
All right. So Tara, I wanted to get you to weigh in on this year's CPAC, which wrapped up recently because that's been a place where rising stars in the Republican party and other presidential hopefuls flex their rhetorical muscles, workshop what they got. So Donald Trump won their 2024 GOP Presidential Nominations straw poll, but Florida Governor Ron DeSantis did come in second. So what are you keeping your eye on as politicians begin strategizing to jockey in this 2024 GOP presidential field?
Tara Setmayer:
So CPAC, as you stated, has always been a must stop place for any presidential hopeful in the Republican party. And the fact that it's in Ron DeSantis' home state and DeSantis has been making moves, whether people want to admit that in his inner circle or not, he clearly has his eye on running in 2024.
Tara Setmayer:
And Donald Trump and Trump world, they're keeping a close eye on this and they're not happy. And so because people are looking at Ron DeSantis as a more palatable alternative to Donald Trump going into 2024, but Donald Trump is still the titular head of the Republican party. And you saw in that CPAC straw poll that he won by a considerable amount.
Tara Setmayer:
But if you take Donald Trump out of the equation, Ron DeSantis is the clear favorite. So I think people need to pay attention to this dynamic. Who was missing was Mike Pence. And I recently wrote a piece for NBC Think where I said that the former Vice President has no chance. Mike cat, Tiki, has a greater chance of becoming President of the United States than Mike Pence, because despite being so obsequious for all those years and Donald Trump's number one enabler, he committed the Cardinal sin of actually standing up to Trump and doing his constitutional duty by certifying the election last year on January 6th.
Tara Setmayer:
That made him persona non grata. So the people who are rising stars and the number one person to pay attention to is definitely Ron DeSantis. And there was buzz about him during CPAC and whether he should wait his turn, or whether they should back him as someone who's an alternative to Donald Trump, given all of Trump's baggage if Republicans think they have a shot at 2024.
Errin Haines:
Yeah, absolutely. And look, I think that we are also seeing Governor DeSantis is absolutely willing to go to this culture war divisive playbook that has had some success, frankly, in Republican politics in recent years.
Errin Haines:
We've seen Governor DeSantis as somebody who's fought against these COVID-19 restrictions precautions. Now he's signaled support for what some are calling that Don't Say Gay bill discouraging teaching about sexual identities in the classroom. The Virginia governors race were certainly showed that conversations around culture war issues like CRT can have an effect with Republican voters, especially those who may be looking for an alternative to the former president in 2024.
Tara Setmayer:
100%. CPAC is the playbook. CPAC is the playbook. Ron DeSantis is the playbook. And I really implore my Democratic friends to pay attention and have a strategy to combat it. Do not let Republicans take these issues of parental rights and the culture war away from Democrats and put them on the defensive.
Errin Haines:
Well, Tara, we got to give you the last word because we're all out of tea for this week, if you can believe it. But thanks both of you so much for being here. Thanks, Farai and thanks Tara.
Tara Setmayer:
Thank you.
Farai Chideya:
Thank you. That was Errin Haines, Our Body Politic contributor and Editor at Large at the 19th and also Tara Setmayer, resident scholar at the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia and Senior Advisor at the Lincoln Project.
Farai Chideya:
Thanks for listening to Our Body Politic. We're on the air each week -- and everywhere you listen to podcasts.
Farai Chideya:
Our Body Politic is produced by Diaspora Farms. I'm the executive producer and host, Farai Chideya. Our Co-executive producer is Jonathan Blakely. Bianca Martin is our senior producer. Bridget McAllister is our booker and producer. Emily J. Daly is our producer. Our associate producer is Natyna Bean.
Farai Chideya:
Production and editing services are by Clean Cuts at Three Seas. Today's episode was produced by Lauren Schild. And engineered by Harry Evans, Michael Goehler, and Adam Rooner.
Farai Chideya:
This program is produced with support from the Ford Foundation, Craig Newmark Philanthropies, the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Philanthropies, Democracy Fund, The Harnisch Foundation, Compton Foundation, the Heising-Simons Foundation, the BMe Community, Katie McGrath & JJ Abrams Family Foundation, and from generous contributions from listeners like you.