PART 2: The investigators take listeners behind the scenes to show what went into the investigation and how a case was built against former President Donald Trump. What was it like to stare down and depose avowed white supremist Proud Boy Enrique Tarrio, who wants to destroy their way of life? The team offers new insight as to why law enforcement failed to stop the insurrection. The tension builds as there is a running clock to present their findings on nationally televised Prime Time hearings.
By now, the story of what happened on January 6 2021 is seared into the public psyche. But there is still an untold story.
Many of the investigators and team leads on the January 6th Committee were people of color. In this podcast, we bring you the story of their leadership, and why their mix of lived experience as descendents of enslaved people; children of immigrants; or immigrants themselves deeply shaped the committee’s quest to protect and uphold a multiracial pluralistic democracy.
The story they tell about the inner workings of the committee also reveal deep rifts over the role of race and Christian Nationalism in the insurrection, and how much of that inquiry should be told while proving former President Trump’s role in the insurrection.
As America winds up with endless court cases over the former President and his alleged co-conspirators, it is also, arguably winding up for an increase in domestic violent extremism. In “January 6th: An American Story,” we show -- through the investigators of color and lawmakers helping lead the committee -- that January 6th is not over, and the ways we continue to make sense of its reverberations could save -- or imperil -- us all.
The story of January 6 is an American Story.
It just might be different from the one you thought you knew.
Sandeep Prasanna: So, on the night of January 6th, after people had literally defecated in the Capitol, Congressman Andy Kim, who is my hometown congressman, and the child of immigrants, he was just walking around picking up trash. Because he was upset that ... the symbol of American democracy had been defiled.
When I think about what happened at the Capitol beyond the bigger story of Trump and the mob, I think about Congressman Andy Kim, who is actually my hometown congressman. And that evening, after people had – sorry, I don't, I don't know why I'm getting emotional.
Farai Chideya: It's okay.
For Sandeep Prasanna and our other investigators, the pain of witnessing the Capitol besieged and defiled fuels a fire within. They enter the Capitol ready to investigate the first non-peaceful transfer of power in our nation's history.
Sandeep: America is both an example for the world, but it's also part of the world, and I think often when people think of American exceptionalism, it puts blinders on the fact that America is subject to the same global forces that other countries are susceptible to.
Farai: Sandeep and his colleagues begin their work amidst the white-supremacist tide unleashed by former President Trump and supported by many far-right conservatives.
Sandeep: And so when we see a global lurch to the right or a lurch towards authoritarianism in some of the biggest, most important countries in the world, the U. S. is part of that. And January 6th is one example of that. I think the events and the lead up to it are shocking. But, I think they weren't entirely not predictable.
Farai: Predictable or not, these investigators are about to delve into every aspect of the 187 minutes that shook the nation to its core.
This is “An American Story.”
Note: there is some offensive language in this episode
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Farai: Joining the January 6th Committee is a homecoming of sorts for Sandeep and Robin Peguero. In the past, they both worked on Capitol Hill.
When Robin arrives on his first day back on the Hill, he's led to the O'Neill Building on Capitol grounds. Sunlight floods through its giant windows. Tucked away, this building escaped damage during the insurrection.
Robin Peguero: Somewhat of a veteran. I had never really known about O'Neill. It was one of those buildings that is sort of off to the side, purposefully nondescript. If it was in the heart of the campus, I think it would have been mayhem.
Farai: Robin heads towards the office and the investigation that will consume his life. He's confronted by the realities of his new position.
Robin: As we were walking over, within 30 minutes to an hour of starting, of joining officially, he says, you know, "How do you get to work?" I said, "I'm gonna walk. I got an apartment that was 15 minutes door-to-door." He says, "Well, you might want to consider taking a different route each time, in case people follow you, in case someone wants to do you harm."
Farai: While Robin had years of Hill experience, it’s new to Bryan Bonner. Remember, his life wound through Harlem, then Virginia, the Air Force JAG Corps, Homeland Security and now – for the first time – to the Capitol, with its protocols and rules.
Bryan Bonner: I came into the office. And I said, “Good morning.” And it was like, dead silence. It was like a morgue. And what I came to realize was the environment on Capitol Hill is when you're an unknown, you're treated like you're dangerous. If they don't know you, they're not going to talk to you.
Farai: Robin and Bryan are assigned to the Blue Team – which Soumya Dayandanda leads – and are responsible for investigating law enforcement preparedness on January 6th. The days are grueling. The pressure to uncover how January 6th occurred and why mounts.
Robin: 6 p.m. would come, and that's usually the time that the hill day ends, 6 p.m. And people we’re still working, you know, late into the night and that sort of atmosphere.
Farai: They don’t have much time. They must complete their investigation before the legislative clock runs out. The 2022 midterms loom.
Robin again.
Robin: We knew, conventional wisdom, right, was going to be that Democrats would not hold on to the House in the subsequent election, which meant that we were not going to exist after that.
Farai: Candyce Phoenix, our investigator who left the DOJ Civil Rights Division to work for Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, leads the Purple Team. This team is tasked with looking into the role of white supremacist organizations, militias and domestic extremists in the lead up to January 6th. She remembers the early days of the committee well.
Candyce: At the beginning, there was so much that had to be done just to stand up the committee. It didn't exist. Nothing about that committee was normal. And then in other ways, all of it was just like everything else that you've ever done dialed up to 11.
Farai: Though many of the investigators are just getting their footing on the political quicksand of Capitol Hill, expectations are high, and they’re asked for quick results.
Candyce: Both the press and the public and the members wanted to move fast. And so there was a lot of just trying to figure out what we could do to demonstrate some movement and some motion while we basically bought ourselves time.
Farai: The shape the investigation and subsequent report will take is still up in the air. But the information they gather begins to put together the puzzle pieces about why American democracy is in such peril.
The seeds of January 6 were planted long before that day. They were sown within our nation's history. The soil was tilled by former President Trump. Temidayo Aganga-Williams – who stood before the gleaming Capitol with tears in his eyes – remembers how Trump antagonized President Barack Obama.
Temidayo: I think if you look back from 2013 on, and you look at the birtherism claims, you look at the entire trajectory of how I think the former president rose to his latest iteration of national prominence, all of that was consistent with everything that happened at the election until January 6th.
Farai: Temidayo is named the investigative lead of the Green Team. Their task was straightforward, but certainly not simple.
Temidayo: So, the Green Team was, as the name would suggest, focused on money. Our mandate was, in the most simplest of ways, follow the money.
Farai: Following the money trail leads to revelations about how Trump's team operated after the election.
Temidayo: We obtained evidence that showed that they did not have approval to write that they won, but they got approved from the higher-ups to start saying that Democrats are trying to steal the election, even though they had no evidence of that.
Farai: The messages from the Trump campaign roll out to his followers multiple times a day.
Temidayo: It was one of the ways a campaign could pump out a message constantly through text messages, through email messages to all the followers, to millions and millions of Americans.
Farai: Temidayo said that the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee were put on notice.
Temidayo: And the email provider started blocking them, because there was violent speech in them. And they were saying it violates our terms and service agreements. Because we don't allow this kind of speech. They're talking about, “This is our last stand.” They’re hearing Trump say, “Fight.” They're getting an email from his campaign saying, “Today is historic – fight.” And I think all of that builds up to why people think that it's time to take action.
Farai: The tenor of the emails and texts are alarming, and members of the Trump campaign flagged each other about the content.
Temidayo: The aggressiveness of the fundraising emails was elevated up the chain at the Trump campaign. They were aware that these emails were violent. They were aware that they were being rejected by other services, but no one stopped or did anything.
Farai: Why not?
Temidayo: Because it was making them a whole lot of money. They kept churning out more.
Farai: Former President Trump's campaign saw no reason to stop.
Temidayo: Between Election Day and January 6th, you have over $250 million that people donate and give. Not only did the numbers surprise me, they surprised folks in the Trump campaign. I mean, three out of their four best fundraising days came after the election. So they were shocked at this cash cow.
Farai: The former president is all too willing to spread what the January 6th Committee calls "The Big Lie”: the false notion that the 2020 presidential election was stolen from President Trump.
Marcus Childress -- -- just like Bryan Bonner – is new to Capitol Hill. Both men were military prosecutors, or “JAGS,” from different generations. Marcus even calls his colleague "Uncle Bryan."
Marcus also works with Sandeep to prepare several depositions of key players. First up: one of the men responsible for spreading the big lie.
Marcus: Ali Alexander's deposition really focused on the Stop the Steal Movement. How it was organized, why it was organized. The rallies, his public statements about the election, about the Capitol, about January 6th.
Farai: Ali Alexander was a mastermind behind many of the Stop the Steal rallies leading up to January 6. Here’s Alexander speaking to some of his followers:
Ali Alexander: I want them to know that 1776 is always an option. [unintelligible crowd yelling] These degenerates in the deep state are going to give us what we want or we are going to shut this country down.
Farai: His contacts extend into the heart of the GOP with Republicans Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs – both from arizona.
In winter 2021, on the morning of his deposition, Alexander makes his way to Capitol Hill. He's flanked by his lawyers while dressed in a slim-fitting gray suit, with his black spectacles perched on his face, and hair combed like a 1960s soul singer.
Marcus: All I knew of Ali Alexander was studying literally every day his tweets, his videos, his public statements at these rallies. And I thought of him as just like this really big personality. And I’m not gonna lie, I was shocked at his physical stature. He was a pretty small, slim man. One thing I will say about Ali Alexander, I think he's a grifter.
Farai: Alexander sits across from Marcus, Sandeep and some of their fellow investigators.
Marcus: Sandeep was my road dog for every depo. Almost every one. Sandeep was my right hand in it. I think it really leveraged our experiences in an amazing way. Sandeep being an oversight policy person who has studied extremism, its roots, how it manifests, how it's continuing to persist in our country, and me being a prosecutor who has to, like, tie elements together in a closing argument.
Farai: The two investigators have done their research, but Alexander comes out swinging.
Marcus: He comes out real hot. I think he said, “Politics is a contact sport. So I know I'm going to get bruised.” Like, came out with the real cliches. And I'm not a cliche guy. Sandeep's not a cliche guy. I'm not sure he was truly prepared to have answers for very factual claims. And then when he tried to weasel out of answering certain questions, I don't think he was prepared for us to put a document in front of him and make him explain it.
Farai: Every denial by Ali Alexander is met with documented facts pointing to his involvement in the attempt to overturn the 2020 presidential election.
Marcus: “Oh, you don't recall? Let me, let me help you refresh your recollection. Here's this text message from November 30th of 2021, where you said, X, Y, and Z, help me understand what you were trying to say or what you were thinking that day.” I said it in that exact tone. “We're going to keep rolling with this and you're going to answer every question we have.”
Farai: Nearly eight hours later...
Marcus: I think we wore him down, if I'm being honest.
Farai: Marcus refers to this deposition as one of his proudest moments as a lawyer.
Still, the pressure takes a toll.
Marcus: I have a really great talent of hiding feelings, which I think is good in these types of situations. That's how I cope with my feelings. I actually become even less expressive, even more stoic than I normally am in my regular life.
Farai: Marcus tried to mentally shield himself from the harsh realities of the investigation.
Marcus: In football, when you're in pain, you're told to bite down on your mouthpiece. Just bite down on your mouthpiece and keep going. Never let them see you sweat. Never let them see you in pain. And I felt that way with the witnesses I was dealing with. I refused to let them see that I was affected by this investigation or this evidence in any kind of way.
Farai: But the work follows him home to his wife and four-month-old son.
Marcus: This was one of those jobs where we were working, like, nonstop around the clock, and so I would try to take the night shifts from my wife, when I would get home from work. And I would look at surveillance footage. I would wear headphones and hold my son. If you were to ask my wife, she would say that I was a zombie.
Farai: Marcus isn't the only one struggling emotionally. Sandeep struggles, too.
Sandeep: I wouldn't say that I necessarily handled my emotional state in the best way. A four-hour interview or deposition with a witness who was involved in the violence of the day could knock me out way more than kind of doing 20 hours of document review. I started therapy a couple of months into working on the committee, and that was really helpful to kind of be able to contextualize and understand my feelings and thought processes.
Farai: Candyce again.
Candyce: There's no way in a deposition to sit across from folks who are dropping the N-word left and right as if it's nothing and hold your face as if you're not reacting to that and not leave that with some degree of trauma.
Farai: The work is traumatizing, but there’s no time to rest. Next up for Sandeep and Marcus: Enrique Tarrio, leader of the Proud Boys – a far-right extremist organization elevated into the public eye by President Donald Trump during a 2020 presidential debate hosted by then Fox News anchor Chris Wallace:
Trump: Give me a name. Give me a name. Go ahead.
Wallace: White supremacists. And white –
Trump: Who would you like me to condemn?
Wallace: Proud Boys.
Trump: Proud Boys. Stand back and stand by.
Farai: On the social media platform Parler, Tarrio replied, “Standing by, sir.”
During a deposition, a member of the Proud Boys reported that its ranks rapidly rose following Trump's call to stand by.
Unlike Ali Alexander, Tarrio's deposition takes place over a video call. He's projected into the room staffed by Sandeep, Marcus and Candyce.
Sandeep: Marcus and I worked really closely together, including on the deposition of Enrique Tarrio. He's a fascinating figure, and the Proud Boys are actually surprisingly racially diverse, even though they advance ideas related to white nationalism.
Farai: It may seem counterintuitive, but Enrique Tarrio is part of a new wave of extremists who – while not white – support white supremacy.
Marcus: He is emotionally intelligent in a way that he can change his message for whoever he's talking to. So when I had studied him, I had a certain perception of him that did not come to fruition during the depo.
Farai: During the deposition, Tarrio scratches absentmindedly at his neck with a look of bemusement on his face.
Marcus: During the depo, it felt like he was honestly trying to make me his friend, trying to disarm me. He tried to give off as if being cooperative towards us, although he was clearly leaving out facts that we were aware of. I thought he was extremely talented at evading questions and knowing that we were not having a criminal investigation, there was only but so much we could do to really challenge him on his answers.
Farai: The deposition leads Marcus to question the depth of Tarrio's beliefs.
Marcus: Maybe he's just an opportunist when it comes to the messages that he was peddling. I don't think Enrique Tarrio knows who he is. I personally think he just wanted fame.
Farai: January 6 happened because of efforts from men like Ali Alexander and Enrique Tarrio, but they didn't act alone. On the morning of January 6, the committee findings indicate President Trump used language that enabled the insurrection.
Here's Robin reading from a part of the January 6 Committee report which he wrote:
Robin: "From a tent backstage at the Ellipse, President Trump looked out at the crowd of approximately 53,000 supporters and became enraged. According to testimony received by the committee, earlier that morning at the White House, the president was told that the onlookers weren't willing to pass through the magnetometers because they were armed.
Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato reportedly told President Trump, ‘They have weapons that they don't want confiscated by the Secret Service.’ President Trump shouted to his advance team, ‘I don't fucking care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Take the fucking mags away.’”
Farai: Sandeep has been watching the tick-tock of domestic violent extremism rising in America. He noticed warning signs for months leading up to the insurrection at the Capitol.
Sandeep: Frequently, prior to January 6th, there were armed demonstrations at state capitals across the country,
Farai: Here’s one example that took place in Salem – Oregon's state capital – in mid-December 2020.
Salem demonstration sound: “No longer back the blue. F— the police. F— the police. I stand for the United States Constitution. What do you stand for? F– you! What do you stand for? F—ing Nazis!”
Sandeep: Looking at those videos, anyone would think that that was just taken straight from January 6th. And then we found a video, from January 6th where a woman is standing in front of one of the entrances to the U. S. Capitol. And you can hear her on the video saying, "We did this in Boise. We broke the same glass in Boise.”
Farai: Sandeep was sometimes frustrated by the lack of coordinated federal response.
Sandeep: I'd spent two years prior to that trying to sound the alarm on the growing threat of violent right-wing extremism. And yeah. It's…I'll leave it at that.
Farai: The January 6th Committee always planned televised hearings. But, shortly before the first hearing, Marcus and Sandeep learn the hearings will be televised during primetime: a first.
Sandeep: There was a ton of pressure, a lot of expectations and some degree of uncertainty about how it would all shake out.
Farai: Two weeks before the first hearing, they’re still conducting their investigation and scripting their presentation.
Candyce: As we moved into the hearings, it was a constant churn of scripting and making sure that the evidence we're putting out was told in a way that was simple, that was clean and that was compelling.
And that takes a lot of work. You can't just throw a bunch of facts at the wall and hope it comes together. Those weeks where we were working on the hearings were nonstop.
Farai: The committee will present on the role of law enforcement on January 6th and its inability to contain the rioters. Bryan questions law enforcement’s lack of preparedness.
Bryan: The narrative was, with respect to law enforcement, why didn't they have the intelligence? Like, why didn't they know this was going to happen? How come they were not provided this information? But when you dig, you realize, but they did have the information, right?
Farai: He has a theory shared by some of his fellow Black and brown investigators about why Capitol Police underestimated the threat of the crowd.
Bryan: With respect to the Capitol Police specifically, it was an underestimation of the threat and an overestimation of their ability to respond to it, colored by the demographics of the crowd.
When you talk to them about the demographics, they'll say, "Well, we handle protests all the time," which is true. I would say, "But didn't this occur to you?" And they say, "Well, no, Bryan we've handled rioters before, we've handled people protesting before, and we've got this.”
Farai: Except they didn't. At all.
Bryan: Arguably, if the complexion of the crowd had been more Black and brown people, I think that they might have responded differently. I think that speaks to racism through perception, making assumptions about what people are going to do based on how they look.
Farai: As the leader of the purple team, candyce hopes to tell the story of how white supremacy was the driving force behind january 6th instead of a report focusing primarily on the actions of former president trump.
Candyce: Nancy Pelosi, when she empaneled the committee, said she wanted to make sure that something like January 6 never happened again.
And our question on the Purple Team was, what do we mean when we say that? Are we talking about we don't want a broad-scale systemic disenfranchisement of a large portion of this country that led us to January 6th in the first place? The further back you get from January 6th to define that problem, the larger the solution needs to be, and the closer you stay to January 6, the smaller the solution is.
Farai: Do they elevate the larger solution or not? With Chairman Bennie Thompson and Vice Chair Liz Cheney at the helm, the congressional members debate the merits of the two possible directions.
Robin: when the members got together in that report meeting it was them in the front and then like 40 or 20, 30, whatever of us investigators just behind watching them debate and we would present, we would get up and present our sort of version
Farai: Candyce, head of the Purple Team, presents a different frame for the January 6 report.
Candyce: You saw the militias. You saw the Christian nationalists. You saw the MAGA folks, the QAnon folks. All of those are different denominations of white supremacy. QAnon has very anti-Semitic tropes and memes and language that people may or may not consciously understand
Farai: The investigators and congressional members all come to the table with different experiences.
Robin: They have very different views about the military, about the police, about race. There's a lot of discussion. They're not all gonna agree on how you present race to the American people and what factor it played in January 6th.
Farai: Eventually, the chair and vice chair reach consensus on what the January 6th report should contain.
Robin: It was we need to keep the eye on the ball, which is the former president seeking to end American democracy. That’s what this has gotta be about.
Farai: And soon, in primetime no less, America will get to watch so much of the investigators work artfully crafted by former ABC News producers.
Robin: People were at the door trying to get in. There were so few spots. Members of Congress were sitting in the audience. So much press, so much excitement that it was a circus.
Farai: The hearings begin.
Thompson: I'm Bennie Thompson, chairman of the January 6th, 2021 committee. I'm from a part of the country where people justify the actions of slavery, the Ku Klux Klan and lynching. I'm reminded of that dark history as I hear voices today try and justify the actions of the insurrectionists on January 6th, 2021.
Farai: The committee presents the information, but will the American people pay attention?
Twenty-two million Americans tune in to this first hearing, taking Robin and the rest of the committee by surprise.
Robin: It was that much drama, that much intrigue, and people were really captivated. I think that was surprising for many of us, obviously a pleasant surprise.
Farai: Marcus – who said he spent many months walking through life as a "zombie" – shares a moment with his wife who supported him through those long days and nights.
Marcus: I sat on the dais next to Miss Cheney and Mr. Kinzinger. My wife was there. My wife and I were just, like, locking eyes the entire hearing because I think she knew how giddy I was on the inside about the work that I had done and where I was sitting in this moment, and I view the Capitol as just like one of the most symbolic, important institutions in the entire world, and I think that's why January 6th made me so motivated to want to investigate it, because I hold it and the promise of America so deeply.
Farai: But that promise has been broken over and over, especially to those who are Black and brown. Our next episode delves deep into race and how it plays into almost everything about January 6, including our investigators’ perspective.
Coming up on Episode 3:
Temidayo: I can only speak as a Black person, but I think a lot of us walk into rooms and we're always doing a math calculation. You're wondering how they think of you, you’re wondering whether or not they're pro-Black or anti-Black, and we've been all doing this since we were children.
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CREDITS
Thanks for listening to "January 6: An American Story,” a special series from Our Body Politic.
I’m host and executive producer, Farai Chideya. For this series, Joanne Levine is our executive producer. Morgan Givens is our senior producer.
The series was written by Joanne Levine, Morgan Givens and Farai Chideya.
Mary Mathis and Nicole Bode are our fact-checkers. The series was sound designed by Rococo Punch. Jordan Greene is our researcher.
Our Body Politic is produced by Diaspora Farms and Rococo Punch. Nina Spensley and Shanta Covington are also executive producers. Emily J. Daly is our senior producer. Our technical director is Mike Garth.
Special thanks to the folks at Clean Cuts, including Carter Martin, Emma Shannon, Harry Evans, Archie Moore, Mike Goehler, Adam Rooner, Molly Mountain and Aliza Jafri.
This series is produced with the support of Ruth Ann Harnisch.
This program is produced with support from the Surdna Foundation, Ford Foundation, Katie McGrath and JJ Abrams Family Foundation, Craig Newmark Philanthropies, Meadow Fund, Democracy Fund, Heising-Simons Foundation, Schusterman Family Philanthropies, Open Society Foundations, The Henry L. Luce Foundation, Compton Foundation, Harnisch Foundation, Pop Culture Collaborative, the BMe Community, and from generous contributions from listeners like you.